From: tgpedersen
Message: 55318
Date: 2008-03-16
--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, george knysh <gknysh@...> wrote:
--- tgpedersen <tgpedersen@...> wrote:
> > Caesar is the first to mention the Germani at all,and Ariovistus
> > is the first one of them he sees.
>
> ****GK: Posidonius of Apamea, in the lost 30th book of
> his "Histories", published ca.80 BCE mentions the
> eating and drinking customs of the Germani. Since
> these drink wine, they are probably the early
> Cisrhenani who crossed the Rhine long before
> Ariovistus, or those just east of the Rhine. In the
> Posidonius context a Celtic (Gaulish) etymology for
> the term seems quite defensible.****
Well, thank you. Consequently, it would appear that I have used
ordinary, not Torsten logic, to reach this conclusion.
> > Come to think of it: Ariovistus' troops have slept without a roof
> > in fourteen years, presumably as Haedui mercenaries. Why would
> > they, in the course of (pecuniary) duty, have spent time in the
> > Wetterau? There weren't any Arverni enemies there. I propose
> > therefore instead that the Wetterau Przeworsk were the Harudes
> > waiting to be settled in Haedui territory. That would make the
> > Harudes Przeworsk, which is OK; all intelligence we have of them
> > being elsewhere is later than the Ariovistus incident.
> >
> > As for the 15,000 becoming 120,000, those extra
> > people either came to the Haedui on their own initiative, or the
> > Haedui, unwilling to fight for their own cause, sent for them when
> > the war went badly. One day came when they couldn't pay their
> > services and the mercenaries demanded land instead. Happened
> > before, happened since, will happen again.
>
> ****GK: This is a good example of "Torsten logic".
Could you be more specific? So far, all I have to go by is that every
time I reach a conclusion you don't like, I have used Torsten logic,
but if you do like it, I haven't. That can't be all there is to it?
Please enlighten me!
> Now for the facts:
>
> DBG 1.31: "it came to pass that the Germans were
> called in for hire by the Arverni and the Sequani.
> That about 15,000 of them [i.e. of the Germans] had at
> first crossed the Rhine : but after that these wild
> and savage men had become enamored of the lands and
> the refinement and the abundance of the Gauls, more
> were brought over, that there were now as many as
> 120,000 of them in Gaul: that with these the Aedui and
> their dependents had repeatedly struggled in arms-that
> they had been routed, and had sustained a great
> calamity-had lost all their nobility, all their
> senate, all their cavalry." The subsequent context
> indicates that it was Ariovistus who kept inviting new
> bands of Germans in,
It does? Please quote that then, the above doesn't document that claim.
> and the battle of Magetobria,won
> by his forces, was the "great calamity". There is not
> a hint of any "mercenaries" vesus "mercenaries"
> struggle according to Torsten logic.****
"Mercenaries" versus "mercenaries"?? When did I claim that? Please
explain.
> As mentioned, vale.
Vale, vale. Do svidania.
Torsten