From: Patrick Ryan
Message: 54834
Date: 2008-03-07
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick McCallister" <gabaroo6958@...>
To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 3:17 PM
Subject: Re: [tied] Jupiter
> The Romans repatterned their religion after the Greeks
> and adopted their myths. You can't deny that. Eat them
> red herrings till you puke, son.
>
>
> --- Patrick Ryan <proto-language@...> wrote:
>
> > If you think I am agreeing with you, try Wikipedia
> > for the heading 'reading
> > comprehension'.
> >
> > I still deny that proposition.
> >
> >
> > Patrick
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Rick McCallister" <gabaroo6958@...>
> > To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 12:12 PM
> > Subject: Re: [tied] Jupiter
> >
> >
> > > So now you agree with me. How malleable you are!
> > > My point was that the Romans added all the
> > > accoutrements of Zeus and transformed Jupiter to a
> > > clone of Zeus. You orginally denied that and now
> > you
> > > accept it.
> > > Thank you!
> > >
> > >
> > > --- Patrick Ryan <proto-language@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > > You are completely right, Joao.
> > > >
> > > > What some whose only source of information is
> > > > Wikipedia do not seem to
> > > > understand is that myths, however intrinsically
> > > > fascinating, do not affect
> > > > cult and cultural significance except very
> > > > marginally.
> > > >
> > > > For the very shallow, myths are religion.
> > > >
> > > > The sky/weather god, who is usually associated
> > with
> > > > the planet Jupiter,
> > > > represents Dumézil's tripartite sovereignty
> > > > â?"â?"â?" not warriordom as one list
> > > > writer ignorantly opined.
> > > >
> > > > One feature of ancient religion that Dumézil
> > > > missed, and I also did for a
> > > > long time, is that the sovereign god is _not_
> > the
> > > > creator god, which strikes
> > > > most of us, who have been brought up in
> > Christian
> > > > culture as passing
> > > > strange.
> > > >
> > > > And what I missed altogether for many years is
> > the
> > > > connection of this
> > > > creator god, who precedes all others, with the
> > North
> > > > Pole, and the Northern
> > > > Circumpolar Region in general; and with time.
> > > >
> > > > Strangely, this creator god has been eclipsed by
> > his
> > > > sons and daughters in
> > > > almost all religions with the notable exception
> > of
> > > > Judaism, where Yahweh,
> > > > who is an indelicately mixed bag of attributes,
> > > > still _invisibly_ represents
> > > > him.
> > > >
> > > > Any of the gods and goddesses could fight and
> > enter
> > > > human conflicts but the
> > > > war-god, in addition to his martial arts, is
> > usually
> > > > regarded with more fear
> > > > than admiration because of his manic rage,
> > during
> > > > the passage of which even
> > > > the family pets are not safe. This god, not
> > > > surprisingly, is associated with
> > > > intoxicants of all kinds. Berserker rage was an
> > > > artificially encouraged if
> > > > not initiated condition.
> > > >
> > > > The only thing I would question in your factual
> > > > presentation below is adding
> > > > So:te:r to Jupiter's nomenclature. This is, of
> > > > course, Greek; and savior in
> > > > the commonly understood sense, is not one of
> > > > Jupiter's usual functions.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Patrick
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Joao S. Lopes" <josimo70@...>
> > > > To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
> > > > Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 6:30 AM
> > > > Subject: Res: [tied] Jupiter
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Before the Greek influence, Iupiter was very
> > similar
> > > > to Zeus, due his common
> > > > IE source (Dyeus=Zeus=Jupiter) and previous
> > Greek
> > > > influence in Etruscan
> > > > mythology (Tinia=Zeus). The main influence of
> > Greeks
> > > > in Jupiter was that
> > > > Roman Jupiter absorbed all myths from Greek
> > Zeus,
> > > > his children, genealogy,
> > > > and tales. Roman Iupiter was not son of Saturn
> > > > before being assimilated to
> > > > Zeus son Kronos.
> > > >
> > > > ----- Mensagem original ----
> > > > De: Rick McCallister <gabaroo6958@...>
> > > > Para: Cybalist@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Enviadas: Quinta-feira, 6 de Março de 2008
> > 21:15:15
> > > > Assunto: [tied] Jupiter
> > > >
> > > > Here's what Wikipedia has to
> > say
> > > > (1st section)
> > > > Note that Jupiter held the same role as Zeus
> > --i.e.
> > > > Jupiter had been assimilated to Zeus. Note the
> > Greek
> > > > title Soter. This is, of course, after the
> > Romans
> > > > had
> > > > assimilated much of Greek culture.
> > > >
> > > > In Roman mythology, Jupiter (Iuppiter in Latin)
> > held
> > > > the same role as Zeus in the Greek pantheon. He
> > was
> > > > called Juppiter Optimus Maximus Soter (Jupiter
> > Best,
> > > > Greatest, Saviour); as the patron deity of the
> > Roman
> > > > state, he ruled over laws and social order. He
> > was
> > > > the
> > > > chief god of the Capitoline Triad, with Juno and
> > > > Minerva. In Latin mythology Jupiter is the
> > father of
> > > > Mars. Therefore, Jupiter is the grandfather of
> > > > Romulus
> > > > and Remus, the founders of Rome.
> > > > Iuppiter, originating in a vocative compound
> > derived
> > > > from archaic Latin Iovis and pater (Latin for
> > > > father),
> > > > was also used as the nominative case. Jove[1] is
> > a
> > > > less common English formation based on Iov-, the
> > > > stem
> > > > of oblique cases of the Latin name.
> > Additionally,
> > > > linguistic studies identify his name as deriving
> > > > from
> > > > the Indo-European compound *dyēus-
> > pəter-
> > > > ("O Father God"), the Indo-European deity from
> > whom
> > > > also derive the Germanic *Tiwaz (from whose name
> > > > comes
> > > > the word Tuesday), the Greek Zeus, and the Vedic
> > > > equivalent, Dyaus Pita.
> > > >
> > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________
> > _________
> > > > _________ _
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