Re: PIE meaning of the Germanic dental preterit

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick Ryan" <proto-language@...>
wrote:

>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "alexandru_mg3" <alexandru_mg3@...>
> To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 4:47 PM
> Subject: Re: [tied] PIE meaning of the Germanic dental preterit
>
>
>
> I.
> > > 0. There was a Common Language named PIE (-> so already from

here

> you
> > > story with 'bats and birds' doesn't fit)
> > >
> > > 1. There were already in PIE verbal construction in -dH(e)h1-
> this is
> > > the starting point. -dH(e)h1- was also used for noun and
> adjectival
> > > constructions too.
> >
> > There were compounds with *dHeh1-, which is not the same
> > as "constructions".
>
>
> I think that you need to take a closer look on this.
>
> PIE-verbal-constructions (in -dHeh1-) weren't PIE Compounds in
> the 'common PIE sense'
>
> Why?
>
> Because the basic rule of a PIE Compound "A - B": is that the Main
> Term (-> the Head Word in the Compound) is B not A :
>
> Examples:
> Skt. pi':tu: da:ru: 'a kind of (pine?) tree' => we have a Tree here
> Dacian: Tamasi-dava 'the Dark/The Black Fortress' => we have a
> Fortress here
>
> Now if we take a look of a PIE form in -dHh1-
> Lith. boyditi < *bHoih-dHh1- 'to scare'
>
> is obvious that this Verbal Construction wasn't a PIE Compound
> because the meaning has remained 'to scare' => so that one of

*bHoih-

> 'to fear'
>
> ***
>
> Marius, you have a serious misunderstanding of compound structure

in PIE.

>
> It is a phrase, 'put fear into' = 'scare' in _exactly_ the same

pattern as

> 'put heart into' = 'trust'.
>
> Normally, the nominal element comes first, then the verbal element.

From where you arrive to a Noun when we have Only the Root for the
Stem?

So I didn't agree here:
bHoih- in baidyti is Only a Root-Stem and the Root basically
indicates the Verb not the Noun => so is not Noun+Verb => is
Verb+<dheh1> (in baidyti I mean)

<Noun + dheh1-> gave Noun in PIE
<Verb + dheh1-> gave Verb in PIE
etc...

Even so you have indicated somehow what I wanted to say too.
The Verbal Compounds in dheh1- are not related to the constructions

V1 + V2 or
S1 + S2

they are more related to a
Verb + <Sufix + Ending> construction

> It is not a modal marker at all. It is simply a common phrase

containing

> noun+verb that has been compounded into a single verb.

Is not Noun+dH(e)h1- : because we have only the Root-stem bHoih-
and a PIE root indicates basically the Verb

So Wrong Assumption => Wrong Conclusion

> These compounds are not periphrastic verbal constructions but

simple

> compounded verbs.

They are once X in X-dheh1- is a Verb there is no other way to
interpret it.


Marius