Re[2]: Dutch/vlaams (was [tied] Etruscans)

At 3:12:39 PM on Sunday, January 13, 2008, tgpedersen wrote:

[...]

>>> That's not the point. Two of the names, Fulcho and
>>> Trise, are Germanic.

[...]

>> Do you mean these names are typically and recognizably
>> Dutch ?

> I know that Truus is Dutch name.

According to van der Schaar, it's a modern variant of
<Truida>, a pet form of <Geertruida>, and it's also found as
a pet form of <Catharina>.

> Where would you place 'Trise'?

<Trysa> is a known 13th century pet form of <Beatrijs>, from
Fr. <Beatrice>; that would be my first guess.

>> Pt 1 : Germanic invaders around Boulogne / mer are
>> Saxons.

>> The area around Boulogne/mer has been invaded by Saxons,
>> within a radius of about 30 km between 500 and 600. The
>> place-names have distinctly Saxon : AltSaechsisch
>> features. Audresselles : Oderselle (1075) <
>> Auda-Hari-seel : seel not saal. Selles < Selis (826)

According to Dauzat & Rostaing, the 826 citation is actually
for <Selae>; they also give <Seiles> 1084.

> Do you have a source on this?

Morlet gives <Odersele> 1150, <Odresselle> 1208, <Audresel>
1323; she makes the generic either OHG <seli> or ODu
*<sele>. OSax has <seli>.

[...]

>> Most villages around Boulogne end in -thun from *-tu:n
>> and -hem/-hen/-ent from *haim Frethun : Fraidon-tun
>> Rinxent : Rinning-s-haim. these Saxon names from *haim

Morlet makes the generic <-heim>, but OSax <he:m> seems
possible. Her earliest citations are <Erningasen>
1107x1117, <Rinningshem> 1119, and <Renningesem> 1157,
presumably representing an original *<Renningashe:m> or the
like.

>> are pronounced with nasal vowel [aN] while Flemish names
>> are pronounced with nasal vowel [eN] or read [-em]

> Source?

>> NB: Some places are supposed to be Norse : like Sangatte
>> : sand-gata : sand entrance which is a small sandbeach
>> tucked between twenty km of cliffs.

Dauzat & Rostaing derive it from Du. <gat> 'a hole, a gap; a
channel'. (There is an identical ON cognate <gat> 'a hole,
an opening'; <gata>, however, is 'a way, a path, a road',
cf. Ger. <Gasse>.)

[...]

Brian