Re: Thüringen (Was: -leben/-lev/-löv and -ung-)

From: tgpedersen
Message: 50883
Date: 2007-12-12

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "ualarauans" <ualarauans@...> wrote:
>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "ualarauans" <ualarauans@> wrote:
> > >
> > > [...]
> > > AFAIK the latest entry on "Thüringer" in the Reallexikon der
> > > germanischen Altertumskunde on the whole rejects the
> > > traditionally drawn link between this people and Hermunduri,
> > > both historically and archaeologically.
> >
> > What reasons do they give?
>
> Here is a brief summary by Dr. Faltin of the RGA article "Thüringer"
> submitted to the Gothic-L.
>
> > The authors clearly reject the old theory, which saw the Thuringi
> > as descendents of the Hermun-duri. M. Springer argues in the
> > historical section of the study that neither the temporal, nor the
> > geographical and especially not the linguistic arguments allow
> > such a link between the Thuringi and Hermunduri. In the
> > archaeological section of the study, C. Theune supports this view
> > and states bluntly that the newer scholarship rejects the link
> > between Thuringi and Hermunduri (p. 536).
> >
> > This leaves the question open where did the Thuringi come from. M.
> > Springer discusses the theory, presented (again) recently by
> > Grahn-Hoek, which argued that the Thuringi originated from
> > remnants of the Tervingi. The idea is that the name T(h)(e)uringi
> > is derived from the form T(h)eruingi. This theory has the
> > advantage that it is linguistically feasible and that it makes
> > sense also from a temporal point of view. I.e. the Theruingi
> > disappear just at the time when the Theuringi appear at the
> > Danube. Grahn-Hoek sites also a lot of historical argumentation
> > for this theory, but the best support comes from archaeology.
> > Thus, archaeologists have shown that carriers of the
> > Chernyakhovs/Sintana-de-Mures culture had moved from the Black
> > Sea to the heartland of the later Thuringian realm in the last
> > decades of the 4th century. B. Schmidt names this group Niemberger
> > Gruppe and Theune wrote that the Thuringian ethnogenesis took
> > place on the basis of this Niemberger Gruppe around 400 AD. Theune
> > states that further horse nomadic and East Germanic influences
> > arrived in the course of the 5th century.
> >
> > Interestingly, in her study Grahn-Hoek had linked the Thuringi
> > with the Terwingi of Athanaric. Among others, she had stated that
> > the Burgundian royal family was descended from Athanaric, the
> > Terwingian judge. Grahn-Hoek argued that such a family link would
> > be much more feasible if remnants of Athanaric's family had moved
> > much further to the west to Thuringia than the usual settlements
> > in Rumania. Indeed, Springer reiterates that early sources usually
> > mention Thuringians and Burgundians side-by-side. He does not
> > refer to the link with Athanaric, but Springer notes that the
> > Thuringian castle Giebichen-stein might be named after the royal
> > house of the Burgundians, the Giebichungen.
> >
> > In his article "Terwingen" in the RGA, G. Kampers mentions an
> > alternative name link, which was also discussed by Grahn-Hoek.
> > Kampers states that the T(h)yringi (which is one of the name forms
> > for Thuringi) could be the name of the Terwingi who lived at the
> > Tyrus river (i.e. the later Dnestr). Such a name form would be
> > analogue to the Tanaites, i.e. the Alan who lived at the Tanais
> > river (Don).
>

As for the linguistic problem, I've proposed something no one else
does, namely that Hermun-duri is Iranian, which would make Turingi a
direct translation of it into Germanic (or Old European). That oughta
take care of the linguistic objection. As to the archaeology, the
quote unfortunately gives no reason for this change in opinion. Later
arrivals from the east won't bother my proposal either, they may be
relatives arriving late.


Torsten