Re: -leben/-lev/-löv and -ung- (gothic loanwords)

From: fournet.arnaud
Message: 50811
Date: 2007-12-09

[http://www.fh. ug.gda.pl/ images/Czarnecki .pdf].
 
I cannot see why these words should be specifically Gothic.
They look germanic, but what makes them Gothic ?
 
And some derivations are difficult to believe :
Russian Serga from userjag from Ausa-hrigg(s).
Why should Russian lose the first syllabe ?
Cf. U-kraina
Uralic Mordve has a word :
kirks circle, corona, a generic word for round objects.
Serga can be the satem result of *kerg-
Looks like a better candidate for a close link.
 
Arnaud
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Piotr Gasiorowski
To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 1:53 PM
Subject: [Courrier indésirable] Re: [tied] Re: -leben/-lev/-löv and -ung-

On 2007-12-09 12:54, ualarauans wrote:

> There's an article by Tomasz Czarnecki dealing with Gothic loans in
> Polish [http://www.fh. ug.gda.pl/ images/Czarnecki .pdf]. He lists Polish
> Gdan'sk and Torun' under the category of "mögliche Entlehnungsfä lle"
> (pp. 11-13). Now if these settlement names are indeed Gothic, they
> must have survived the later Slavic colonization of what is now Poland.

I don't understand Czarnecki's suggestion concerning Torun' (there seems
to be some kind of complex typo due to problems with fonts), so it's
difficult to comment on it. The alleged Gothic prototype of the name of
Gdan'sk is given first as "*gudiscandja" , then (more correctly)
"*gutiskandja" (it would actually have been something like *gutisks
andeis in Wulfilan terms, from *Gutiskaz anDijaz). I'm very sceptical
about the possibility of deriving anything like *gUdanIskU from that
without shuffling the segments up in a way that strains credibility.
Other geographical names mentioned in the article include the rivername
Tanew. I used to believe myself that it looked liked a borrowing from
Gothic, but see:

http://tech. groups.yahoo. com/group/ cybalist/ message/28324

Not that I dismiss all that material. Many of those Gothic (well, let's
say early (East) Germanic) sources are fully plausible.

Piotr