Re: -leben/-lev/-löv and -ung-

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Brian M. Scott" <BMScott@...>
wrote:

>
> At 4:45:34 AM on Friday, December 7, 2007, tgpedersen wrote:
>
> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Brian M. Scott"
> > <BMScott@> wrote:
>
> >> At 5:58:57 AM on Thursday, December 6, 2007, tgpedersen
> >> wrote:
>
> >>> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Rick McCallister
> >>> <gabaroo6958@> wrote:
>
> >>>> So, any relation to George? The one from Wassa's ton?
>
> >>> Hard to say.
> >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington%2C_Tyne_and_Wear
>
> >>> This article roots for *hwæs- but doesn't document the
> >>> h-; instead it cites a Wasindone from 1096.
>
> >> The <Washington> in Tyne and Wear is 'the estate called
> >> after Hwæssa', from OE <Hwæssingtûn>. Forms:
>
> >> Wessint', Wessinton ~1170x80
> >> Wessington('),-yng- 1183[~1320], 1196x1215-1473
> >> Wesshyngton, -yng- 1411-1556
>
> >> Wassinton' 1211
> >> Wassington, -yng- 1382, 1418
> >> Wasshin(g)ton 1406
> >> Washington 1581-
>
> >> Quessigton' 1280
> >> Quessigton' ~1310
> >> Whessyngton 1475, 1548
> >> Qwassyngton 1388x1406
> >> Whassington, -yng- 1350-70
>
> >> It's the third group that shows that the base anthroponym
> >> must have been <Hwæssa> rather than <Wassa> (see below).
> >> Victor Watts notes that the first two groups seem to have
> >> been influenced by OE <wæsse> 'a wet place, a swamp, a
> >> marsh', which however does not at all fit the topography.
>
> > According to the Wikipedia article, some disagree:
>
> > "A second potential Anglo-Saxon origin, could be from Old
> > English wæsc "to wash" + -inga 'people of' + du:n "hill"
> > (i.e. people of the hill by the stream). This theory
> > originates from its proximity to the Wear. This origin
> > could possible be shown in an apparent record of the name
> > as Wasindone from 1096."
>
> I'll take Victor Watts over an unsourced Wikipedia
> assertion any day. In this case there isn't even a source
> given for the alleged <Wasindone> 1196, which is mentioned
> neither by Watts nor by Ekwall. Moreover, even if it is
> legitimate and does refer to the place in question, it's
> clearly the odd one out.

In what sense? It differs from the second group you cite only in
having -s-. That can't be what you mean? Unless it indicates long
vs. otherwise short vowel, but the root in Germanic is double,
*was-/*wo:s- (< PPGerm. a/a: or o/o:).

>
> >> The name <Hwæssa> is also seen in <Whessoe> (Durham).
>
> > Odd. Especially since the the forms without k- or h- are
> > the oldest.
>
> You of all people have no business objecting to late
> appearance of a more accurate representation of the
> underlying form!

I don't know what it is in me that brings the staff sergeant out in
some people. What makes you think it is your business to tell me
what my business is?

> > Are there similar alternations in other English placenames
>
> Yes.
>
> > and if yes, do they occur in names of any particular type?
>
> Not to my knowledge, but I've never looked into it.

A few examples would be nice. The two so far have *(k)wa-

> > Are the PNs Hwæssa and Wassa documented?
>
> Independently attested as personal names? I'm not aware of
> any such attestations, but there isn't any really good OE
> onomasticon. Watts stars <Hwæssa> but does not star
> <Wassa>, and his sources were much better than mine.

It would have been helpful if you had starred it too.


Torsten