Re: root *pVs- for cat

>
> > You seem to have left out a number of non-foreign pairs of
> > items in p-/b- in McBain:
>
> I *said* that it was a cursory search. Also, I wasn't using
> McBain; I was using the much more extensive dictionary
> compiled by Dwelly for Sc.Gael. and Dinneen's for Irish.
> (And as I noted before, pairs found only in Sc.Gael. are
> pretty nearly useless for your purpose.)
>
> > babag "tassle" / pab "shag, refuse of flax"
>
> It's distinctly disingenuous to call this non-foreign when
> you've read the <pab> entry in McBain. <Babag> is a
> diminutive of <bab>, which may be from ME; <pab> is from EIr
> <pop(p)> 'a shoot, a tendril (of a plant), also <pap>, which
> may be from Latin.

This is McBain's pab-entry:
"
pab, shag, refuse of flax, woolly hair, and (M'A.) tassel (= bab), M.
Ir. papp, popp, sprig, tuft, E. Ir. popp, bunch, which Stokes refers
to a Celtic *bobbú-, *bhobh-nú-, from *bhobh, *bhabh, Lat. faba, bean,
Gr. pomphós, blister, pémpiks, bubble, Lettic bamba, ball, I. E.
bhembho-, inflate. Eng. bob, cluster, bunch, appears in the 14th
century, and Sc. has bob, bab correspondingly ; the Gadelic and Eng.
are clearly connected, but which borrowed it is hard to say. The
meaning of pab as "shag, flax refuse" appears in the Sc. pab, pob.
Borrowing from Lat. papula, pimple, root pap, swell, has been suggested.
"

Let's first reiterate our positions:
I think the Celtic p-/b-words are borrowed from some substrate
language. You think they, if borrowed, are borrowed from a classical
language (loans in p- from English can only be indirect, since they
are foreign in Germanic too).
On pabula, Ernout-Meillet:
"
A cause de papilla, le plus probable eat que -ula de papula est
suffixal. Dès lors, on rapprocherait lit. papãs "mamelon du sein".
Mot de type familier, sans étymologie nette.
"
The last remark is because of the -a- in the root, which makes it
probable that the word in not of native Latin origin. Is it the fact
that I tried to find an origin beyond Latin you find disingenuous?
Please explain.

> > breitheal/breathal/preathal "confusion of mind"
> > brog "stimulate, an awl" from Sc. brog, prog
>
> Where 'Sc.' means 'Scots', the Gmc. language descended from
> northern varieties of OE, so if McBain is right, this is not
> a native word.

If the Sc.Gael. and the Sc. words are cognate then they belong to the
stock of words in Germanic which has b-/p- alternation and must be
non-native in Germanic.

> McBain also notes that Thurneysen took the Sc.Gail. word to be a
> borrowing from French.

I am not aware of a Latin pedigree for that word. If it exists in
French, Sc. and Sc.Gael. it must be of NWBlock or similar origin.

> > buinne/boinne/puinne "a cataract, tide"
>
> And McBain explicitly says that <puinne> is a Sutherland and
> West Ross local variant.
>
> > beithir/peithir "thunderbolt"
>
> Dwelly takes <peithir> to be a localized dialect form.
> McBain points out that the word is <beithir> 'a serpent, any
> wild beast, a monster, a large skate', from EIr <beithir> 'a
> bear', and that the 'thunderbolt' sense is a figurative
> extension. The native status of the word is in doubt, as
> McBain notes; the DIL mentions that it has been derived from
> ON <ber(a)> and that this derivation has also been disputed.
>
> > biorraid/pioraid "hat, cap"
>
> McBain notes that this is from English <biretta>, from Late
> Latin <birretum>; the DIL s.v. <birrét> makes it a Latin or
> Romance loanword. In any case it's clearly not native.

Ernout-Meillet:
"
birrus, -ï (byrrus) m. (et birrum Gloss.): capote à capuchon, en tissu
raide et à poils longs, en usage dans toutes les classes sous les
derniers empereurs. Le grec a aussi bírros. Sans doute mot d'emprunt;
cf. Hesych. bérros beíron dasú, birroks: dasú Makedónes; ou irl.
-berr, gall. byrr "court", qui irait assez avec la définition de CGL V
410,80 byrrus cuculla breuis; cf. Thurneysen, Fetschr. Kuhn, 8a. M.L.
1117a. Sans rapport sans doute avec birrus "roux", doublet de burrus
"
It's clearly not native in Latin either.

> > bleid/pleid "solicitation"
> > blosc/plosc "palpitate, throb"
>
> What McBain actually has is <plosg>, EIr <blosc>, and a
> cross-reference to <blosg>, which is glossed 'sound a horn',
> MIr <blosc> 'voice'. The DIL makes it <blosc> 'a sound, a
> noise, a crash'. Obviously the word originally had /b-/,
> /p-/ being a later development in Sc.Gael.

You'd have to explain Ir. plosg (O'R., Fol.) first.

> > brasgan/prasgan "a group, flock"
>
> If McBain is correct in suggesting a relationship with Ir.
> <prosnán>, this is from EIr <brosna> 'faggot(s), bundle of
> firewood', the connecting link being 'bundle, group';
> Matasovic derives this from PCelt. *brusniyo- 'faggot',
> (bundle of) firewood', from PIE *bHrews- 'break'. Here at
> last we seem to have an example of /b-/ > /p-/ in Irish,
> whether the Sc.Gael. word is related or not.

See above.

> > brosnaich/prosnaich "incite"
>
> From EIr <brostaid> 'urges, incites, stirs up', which
> according to the DIL is a loan from ON.

Which ON word?


Torsten