From: tgpedersen
Message: 48875
Date: 2007-06-06
> > > Much more interesting is Alb hall `trouble, disappointment,Possibly Latin scelus "crime", German Schuld etc
> > > sorrow' from probably *H1ol-no with denominative hall-a-kat
> > > `disperse, scatter, throw about', deverbative hallakamë
> > > `disorder, mess, disturbance, alarm' with regular preserving
> > > of *h1 as /h/.
> > >
> > > Konushevci
> >
> > Rom. hal and Alb. hall are 'usually' (-> see dexonline.ro)
> > considered loans from Turkish hal
> >
> > If inherited, the reconstructed form should be PAlb *hal-wa <
> > PIE *h3elh1-wo-s '<possesing (the traces)> of <to destroy>-
> > action'
> >
> > because the clusters ln/rn are preserved in Romanian
> >
> > Any hint about the Turkish hal?
> >
> > Marius
> ************
> Arab ha:l has the meanings 'position, case, circumstance,
> situation', probably entered in Turkish and in some Balkan
> languages. This view was characteristic form G. Meyer, but
> meanings of Alb hall 'trouble, disappointment, sorrow' have
> nothing to do with meaning of Arab ha:l. V. Orel have try to
> explain Alb hall, pl. halle 'trouble, plight, misery, sorrow'
> from PALb *skalna connected with Gmc *skallaz 'thin, dry,
> shallow' (NE shallow and the like)- *xallaz 'weak, tired'
> (MHG hel, hellec). (AED, 111.)
>
> As far as I see, hal in Romanin has exactly the meaning 'situation,
> position', so I am afraid that it is really the loan from Turkish.
>
> I give my view about Alb hall and I still think that it is much
> probable to be derived from *H1/H3elH1- 'to destroy', taking into
> consideration other derivatives of this noun, as well as of
> partall-is=shpartalloj 'to destroy'.
>