Re: h3elh1- => destroy, anihilate

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alexandru_mg3" <alexandru_mg3@...>
wrote:

>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Abdullah Konushevci"
> <akonushevci@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alexandru_mg3" <alexandru_mg3@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Could somebody explain me why Beekes says 'On wrong hypotheses':
> > >
> > > " On wrong hypotheses s. W.-Hofmann s. aboleo:, de:leo: and
> volnus;"
> > >
> > > making reference too Greek: ollumi < *olnumi (< *olne:mi < *h3.l-
> n-eh1-
> > > mi)
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Marius
>
> > Much more interesting is Alb hall `trouble, disappointment, sorrow'
> > from probably *H1ol-no with denominative hall-a-kat `disperse,
> > scatter, throw about', deverbative hallakamë `disorder, mess,
> > disturbance, alarm' with regular preserving of *h1 as /h/.
> >
> > Konushevci
>
> Rom. hal and Alb. hall are 'usually' (-> see dexonline.ro)
> considered loans from Turkish hal
>
> If inherited, the reconstructed form should be PAlb *hal-wa < PIE
> *h3elh1-wo-s '<possesing (the traces)> of <to destroy>-action'
>
> because the clusters ln/rn are preserved in Romanian
>
> Any hint about the Turkish hal?
>
> Marius

************
Arab ha:l has the meanings 'position, case, circumstance, situation',
probably entered in Turkish and in some Balkan languages. This view
was characteristic form G. Meyer, but meanings of Alb hall 'trouble,
disappointment, sorrow' have nothing to do with meaning of Arab ha:l.
V. Orel have try to explain Alb hall, pl. halle 'trouble, plight,
misery, sorrow' from PALb *skalna connected with Gmc *skallaz 'thin,
dry, shallow' (NE shallow and the like)- *xallaz 'weak, tired' (MHG
hel, hellec). (AED, 111.)

As far as I see, hal in Romanin has exactly the meaning 'situation,
position', so I am afraid that it is really the loan from Turkish.

I give my view about Alb hall and I still think that it is much
probable to be derived from *H1/H3elH1- 'to destroy', taking into
consideration other derivatives of this noun, as well as of
partall-is=shpartalloj 'to destroy'.

Konushevci