[tied] Re: Latin is a q-Dialect having p- from kW , PIE is simil

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Piotr Gasiorowski" <gpiotr@...>
wrote:

>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "stlatos" <stlatos@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alexandru_mg3" <alexandru_mg3@>
> > wrote:
>
> > > 2. perkW- 'name of a tree' ->*perkWunyo > Proto-Celtic

*perkunia:

> > > (attested Hercynia (Caesar), loaned with initial p- in Gothic
> > > fairguni 'mountain') <-> and on the other hand: Q-Italic

*kWerkWus

> > > (Latin quercus 'oak') => so you can see as me that there is no

common

> > > p...kW > kW ...kW
> > >
> > >
> > > Because :
> > >
> > > EITHER
> > >
> > > 1. the delabialisation in Proto-Celtic *perkWus (->

*perkWunia:)

> > > happened BEFORE p..kW>kW...kW in Proto-Celtic
> > > but
> > > 2. the delabialisation kW/u > ku in Proto-Italic *perkWus

(Latin

> > > quercus) happened AFTER the p..kW > kW..kW in Proto-Italic
> >
> > > (The point was raised by Watkins 1966)
> >
> > Dialects that have the same rules but in different order, or

nearly

> > the same rules but with dif. sets of exceptions, etc., are

perfectly

> > common.
>
> Besides, *perk(W)-u- is an ablauting type of noun, with forms such

as

> *perkW-ew-es (no delabialisation). The delabialisation of *kW before
> *u is probably a common IE phenomenon (and of course Lat. has
> <quercus>, not *querquus), but the *kW may have been levelled out

from

> the oblique forms.

This 'Genitive form - argument -' invoked 'by some' is a fake:
1. first the fact that we have an 'ablauting type a noun' is only a
supposition => that need to be demonstrated first and not to be
supposed as a Fact.

2. *perkW-ew-es CANNOT gave Latin quercus => there is no -kWewes > -
cus in Latin

Based on what Latin quercus is not *kWerkWus?

> The name of Hercynia probably reflects something
> like *perku-h3n-ih2 (if it's a Hoffmann compound), and at any rate

its

> delabialised *k doesn't alternate with *kW, so an initial *kW could
> not be introduced as in the dendronym.

Because p..kW > kW...kW belong to dialectal PIE too...and in addition
when appeared p..kW > kW...kW is older than kW/u > u (see Latin)...if
the initial *kW- is not in a word that was reconstructed *perkW-
(unyo) => this means that there isn't any p..kW > kW..kW in Celtic.

> Note that the Celtiberian
> tribal name Querquetani _has_ initial /kW/ as expected!
>

You need to prove that Querquetani is really a Proto-Celtic word.
More sure with toponyms but when we arrive to tribal names : is
difficult to prove fr0om whta Language that word appears

The fact that Quequetani is a Celtic name is usually refuted based on
*perkunyo where we have a Gothic loan starting with f- indicated for
sure an initial p-


Marius