Re: The role of analogy, alliteration and sandhi in counting

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@...> wrote:

>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Rick McCallister <gabaroo6958@>

wrote:

> >
> > So, what constraints produce these variations?
> >
> > Why four, five, wolf vs. why?
> > and Russian chetyre vs pyat?
> >
>
> Swedes speaking English have tendency to replace English /j/

with /y/.

> I think the reason is that j (d3) vs y (and c^ vs �) is a social

and

> geographical shibboleth in Swedish, the former being rustic (Finnish
> Swedish) and declass�. Similarly English English-speakers tend to
> diphthongize long vowels even when speaking foreign languages,
> presumably because the low-status Scottish and Irish varieties of
> English don't diphthongize long vowels. I think this is a general
> priciple. Somehow you can't get your brain to accept that those
> foreigners really in earnest insist on speaking like the despised
> yokels of your own country so you want to help them along on their
> pronounciation.
>
> http://www.angelfire.com/rant/tgpedersen/Shibbolethisation.html
>
> I imagine that in a situation in western(?) PIE where both p and kW
> existed depending on dialect and sociolect there has developed a

drift

> to prefer one over the other (but not necessarily consistently).

Note

> that Latin replaces p with kW in the presense of another kW:

quinque,

> quercus, coquere (*penkW-, *perkW-, *pekW-), so to speak as an over-
> reaction to the presence of p-varieties *penp-, *perp-, *pep-.
> De-Oscanization, one might call it.
>
>
> Torsten
>

'Same' dialectal 'over-reaction' at such a large scale? affecting ,
Celtic, Italic dialects etc...

Dacian has also:
propo-dila/prope-dila versus proce-dila/proke-dila 'cinque folium'

indicating also a possible Dacian dialectal p/kW alternance => if so,
Romanian-Substratum is a Dacian p-Dialect and
Proto-Albanian is a Dacian q-Dialect...there is no trace of kW > p in
PAlb in constrast with Pre-Romanian when all the other phonetic
transformation of that stage are more or less the same

I would say that we have to deal with 'an external PIE kW-Ring' (q-
Celtic, q-Italic, great part of Germany, Western Balkans (proto-
Albanian) ring that is placed more or less half-around 'an inner PIE
p-Ring' (p-Celtic, p-Italic, Nord Balkans (Romanian-Substratum),
Greece, Baltic, Indo-Arian...)),

Marius

Note: The form proce-dila/proke-dila is 'usually' considered a
scribal error.