Re: Res: [tied] Etymology of Rome

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alexandru_mg3" <alexandru_mg3@...>
wrote:

>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Abdullah Konushevci"
> <akonushevci@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alexandru_mg3"

<alexandru_mg3@>

> > wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
> > > <miguelc@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, 07 Mar 2007 23:25:33 -0000, "alexandru_mg3"
> > > > <alexandru_mg3@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Piotr Gasiorowski

<gpiotr@>

> > wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On 2007-03-07 22:44, alexandru_mg3 wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> > Long in Clasical Period, but 'as I know' it wasn't a

long-

> > > o 'at the
> > > > >> > beginning'...
> > > > >>
> > > > >> _What_ beginning? _How_ do you know it was once short?

And

> > how
> > > did it
> > > > >> become long?
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Piotr
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > For another, example, that shows us the change of syllabic
> > > structure:
> > see *kWers-reh2 > Rom(.-Subtratum) c^wa:-ra: 'crow' NOT c^wa:r-

a:

> >
> > For Rom c^oara and Alb sorrë 'crow' and its reconstruction, see
> > Jens' message 30119 and your reconstruction too:
> >
> > The laryngeal is surely missed in Skt. kr.s.n.á- which I would

not

> > like to separate. Perhaps *-ersn- yields Alb. -orr- without the

help

> > of a laryngeal, but I don't see how to exclude lengthened grade.
> > Korrë 'harvest' could be close to or even identical with Lat.

ce:na,

> > Osc. kerssna- 'meal' from *ke(:)rt-sna:. I hardly think the

presence

> > of the -t- makes any difference in Alb. (as I understand it does

in

> > Latin, which has perna from *pe(:)rsna:).
> >
> > The BSl. form could proceed from *c^wo:r- with length and backing
> > from the Balkan loan. And of course expecially the palatal

rounding

> > points in that direction.
> >
> > Perhaps *gWe(:)r&3-snaH2 designated "(processed) mass of

swallowed

> > food", whence zorrë 'intestine'? And *kWe(:)rsna: 'one of a black
> > species', with vrddhi in the latter just as in Lith.

várna 'crow'.

> >
> >
> > Marius -> in fact it was Abdullah
> >
>
> Abdullah please signed with your name, please....not with mine

Sorry, I will be ashamed if I will sign with your name, believe me
or not, despite the fact that your are "big" authority in historic
linguistics, especially in Indo-Iranian languages and in Albanian!

>
> Sorry: but you didn't understood my point: I didn't say that was

a

> laryngeal in *c^wa:ra:,by the way, where you have seen it in my
> message below?
>
> > see *kWers-reh2 > Rom(.-Subtratum) c^wa:-ra: 'crow' NOT c^wa:r-

a:

Oh, I see, there is a true difference between c^wa:ra and c^wa:ra:!

>
> I said only that the syllable structure changed also in this

word:

> from the originary situation, this time after the lost of s :

that's

> all I wanted to show.
>
> And if the structure changed, the moved of the consonant in the
> next syllable, could trigger too, a compensatory lenghtening of

the

> remaining vowel in the first one ...

Sorry again, but where did this consonant moves: forward, backward,
on the left or on the right? Are you talking about Szemerenyi's Law
or about some new Law, probably yours.

> (but this is not the case in c^wara: where s was in the first
> syllable, so please don't come back with another point here...)

Now, you claim c^wara:, just two paragraphs above about c^wa:ra:
etc.

> Marius
>
>
> P.S.: Regarding -n-eh2 in place of -r-eh2, in *kWers-r-eh2 I

already

> said that Romanian preserved the -rn- cluster (see /carne/).

So, you are so sure that it is not a loan from PAlb, because
cluster -rn- is preserved in Romanian. Very interesting!

> Next this -rn- was still present in Roman Times in Local Toponyms
> (see Dacian Dierna).
> Also, in addition Latin rn-Loans in Albanian are affected

too

> so rn>rr is not so old in Albanian.

It is true, cluster -rn- ends in Albanian as -rr-, even in the time
of Latin loans, but does it means that it started exactly in the
time of Latin loans?

> In conclusion: In this case the word for 'crow' would have

been

> c^wa:rna: in Romanian, that is not the case....

Based on your assumption that the cluster -rn- didn't change in
Romanian and that Romanian or Dacian c^oara is not a loan from PAlb?

> So the word has ended in -r-eh2, not in n-eh2, that has more
> sense also from a semantic point of view.

Probably only in Dacian or Romanian. Is this the case?

> In addition I suspect that was *bardz-ra: too...

Very original idea too!

Konushevci