Re: [tied] Thematic root aorist

Andrew Jarrette wrote:

>
>
>
> */Piotr Gasiorowski <gpiotr@...>/* wrote:
>
> On 2006-07-14 23:18, Edgard Bikelis wrote:
> > Hi!
> >
> > Is there any PIE root that is by itself a thematic root
> > aorist/punctual, in the same way as *bher- is durative?
> >
> > The best example I did find for now is from Vedic ávidam / ávidas /
> > ávidat, but this verb seems to be from our old friend *weyd-. If
> so,
> > from where came the -n- from the present vindá:mi / vindási /
> vindáti?
> > Is that the nasal infix from the seventh class, that went to the
> weak
> > grade as it lost the accent for the thematic vowel, or am I just
> messing
> > up everything ; )?
>
> The history of the problem is one of gradual elimination. There are
> _very_ few if any simple thematic aorists that are reconstructible
> for
> PIE. All such aorists seem to have originated as athematic aorist
> subjunctives converted into indicatives or old middles converted into
> actives. The best examples of relatively old simple thematic
> aorist are
> *h1ludH-é/ó- and *wid-é/ó-, the latter less secure than it used to
> be,
> since athematic *weid-/*wid- (secondarily thematised) is suggested by
> Lat. vi:dit vs. Gk eîde, Skt. ávidat. Lat. vi:dit was once
> regarded as a
> reflex of perf. *wóide, but that's unlikely given its meaning ('saw,
> perceived' etc., never 'knows').
>
> Piotr
> _______________
> Why did athematic aorist subjunctives have zero grade? Shouldn't
> they have the forms of the s-aorist or the root aorist (i.e.
> lengthened grade or full grade (or did the root aorist have zero
> grade in the dual and plural?)) plus the subjunctive endings? And
> why would middles (I assume from the imperfect?) have zero grade?
> I'm just a little confused by these ideas of the origin of the
> thematic root aorist. Actually, I've just realized I'm not sure I
> understand what is meant by "thematic _root_ aorist" -- I
> originally thought he meant aorists that have the thematic vowel
> before the endings, but maybe he means something else? Perhaps
> you could clarify on this matter for me.
> Andrew
>
>
>

Hi!

Answering to both answers: First, thank you, Piotr!

If by 'he' you mean me, Andrew, I was trying to create a mental
table of possible root forms. There are athematic (*h1es-, for instance)
and thematic (*bher-) durative roots, but so far I just saw athematic
(*deh3-) punctual roots. Then I asked if there is any punctual root with
thematic vowel and accent on root's ablauting vowel. It is indeed
curious that there is none. What I meant was different from thematic
durative roots that have accent on the thematic vowel when in the aorist.

Edgard.