Re: [tied] Re: Permian

On 2006-04-20 10:34, tgpedersen wrote:

> You said something about the semantic field of *bhrem- :

Without claiming any connection with <Bremen>.

> Pokorny:
> "
> .
> 1. bherem- ,hervorstehen, eine Spitze oder Kante bilden; Kante,
> Spitze'?
> bhorm-:
> Aisl. barmr ,Rand, Saum', ey-barmr ,ora insulae', norw. dial.
> barm ,Kante, Bräme' (z. B. am Segel), ndd. barm, berme ,die sanfte
> Abdachung des Deichfußes, Wallrand'.
> ...
> Mit der Bed. ,Kante, Rand'; mhd. brëm n. ,Einfassung, Rand', nhd.
> verbrämen, ablautend mengl. brimme, engl, brim ,Rand'.
> WP. II 102.
> "

I wasn't relying on Pokorny, and my etymological suggestion is
different. NB "Disyllabic roots" like *bHerem- have been out of favour
since Anttila's study of Schwebeablaut.

> American Heritage Dictionary:
> "
> bhrem-2. To project; a point, spike; an edge.
> 1. ...
> 2. Germanic *berm-, *brem-, in: a. Middle English brimme, edge:
> brim; b. Middle Dutch berme, barm, edge of a dike: berm. [Pok. 1.
> bherem-142.]
> "

> No watery connections?

Only a secondary one. A river bank is a kind of edge, which doesn't mean
that it's the prototypical edge (e.g. the Englisgh word <edge> comes
from the root *h2ak^- 'sharp', Pol. <skraj> comes from a verb meaning
'cut', etc.).

> I was puzzled where you got that idea of supported ledges on the
> sides of rivers. I assumed it was something local? :-)

Extended, figurative meaning, just like saying "at the edge of the
forest" (although the edge of a forest doesn't cut). I was talking about
the hypothetical etymology of the word, not about its meaning in
individual languages.

> That was many perfectly clear things. I was wondering how clear the
> Beorma -> Bermingeham was. Why are you so positive it is based on a
> personal name?

I think I have already given my reasons. You may accept them or not --
it's your choice.

Piotr