[tied] Re: Permian

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Piotr Gasiorowski <gpiotr@...>
wrote:

>
> On 2006-04-20 10:34, tgpedersen wrote:
>
> > You said something about the semantic field of *bhrem- :
>
> Without claiming any connection with <Bremen>.
>
> > Pokorny:
> > "
> > .
> > 1. bherem- ,hervorstehen, eine Spitze oder Kante bilden;

Kante,

> > Spitze'?
> > bhorm-:
> > Aisl. barmr ,Rand, Saum', ey-barmr ,ora insulae', norw. dial.
> > barm ,Kante, Bräme' (z. B. am Segel), ndd. barm, berme ,die

sanfte

> > Abdachung des Deichfußes, Wallrand'.
> > ...
> > Mit der Bed. ,Kante, Rand'; mhd. brëm n. ,Einfassung, Rand',

nhd.

> > verbrämen, ablautend mengl. brimme, engl, brim ,Rand'.
> > WP. II 102.
> > "
>
> I wasn't relying on Pokorny, and my etymological suggestion is
> different. NB "Disyllabic roots" like *bHerem- have been out of

favour

> since Anttila's study of Schwebeablaut.

It was a quote.

> > American Heritage Dictionary:
> > "
> > bhrem-2. To project; a point, spike; an edge.
> > 1. ...
> > 2. Germanic *berm-, *brem-, in: a. Middle English brimme, edge:
> > brim; b. Middle Dutch berme, barm, edge of a dike: berm. [Pok.

1.

> > bherem-142.]
> > "
>
> > No watery connections?
>
> Only a secondary one.

Your interpretation.

>A river bank is a kind of edge, which doesn't mean
> that it's the prototypical edge (e.g. the Englisgh word <edge>

comes

> from the root *h2ak^- 'sharp', Pol. <skraj> comes from a verb

meaning

> 'cut', etc.).

*bh/p-r/l- comes from *(H)abh/p- "water", as far as I'm concerned.
Here's another one, the Hungarian river name Berettyó <
bärek "boggy grove alongside river" + *joo "river

> > I was puzzled where you got that idea of supported ledges on the
> > sides of rivers. I assumed it was something local? :-)
>
> Extended, figurative meaning, just like saying "at the edge of the
> forest" (although the edge of a forest doesn't cut). I was talking

about

> the hypothetical etymology of the word, not about its meaning in
> individual languages.

Erh, hm, OK. Personally I believe the concrete meaning came first,
the abstract generalisation later.

> > That was many perfectly clear things. I was wondering how clear

the

> > Beorma -> Bermingeham was. Why are you so positive it is based

on a

> > personal name?
>
> I think I have already given my reasons. You may accept them or

not --

> it's your choice.
>

You stated that all English place names in -ingham were derived from
personal names. I wondered whether that was only the case in
England. You haven't answered that one yet.


Torsten