--- "Anders R. Joergensen" <
ollga_loudec@...>
wrote:
> > > In Irish we then find delabialization of *kW and
> *gW
> > > (> c and g).
> > > However, one can still tell the existence of
> earlier
> > > labialization
> > > on the rounding effect of a following /a/ (>
> /o/)
> > > and /i/ (> /u/),
> > > e.g. *gWaneti > gonaid, *gWediti > *gWidhith
> > > (raising) > guidid,
> > > etc. And of course <Q> (= /kW/) and <NG> (=
> /gW/) in
> > > ogam.
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Sean Whalen
> <stlatos@...> wrote:
> > I'm fairly certain that's /guD^iD^/ or similar,
> not
> > /giD^iD^/ indicating e>i before Cy (from
> *gWHedhye-
> > similar to Greek thessasthai "pray for").
> I'm not really sure what you're getting at. OIr.
> <guidid> is
> for /gudh'&dh'/ (dh = lenited d), I hope I didn't
> imply anything
> else.
It was a little confusing to me, but my only
problem is when you wrote *gWediti > *gWidhith it
looked like you were saying e>i before i not before y
in this word (which is why I wrote "indicating e>i
before Cy")). Is e>i before i what you meant or were
you simplifying the derivation?
> There's
> no
> > reason to assume *gWaneti with a>o not *gWeneti
> with
> > e>o. In Welsh e>e~>a~>a before nasals explaining
> go-
> > vs gwa- here.
> There is a sporadic change of pretonic & > a in
> front of nasals in
> Middle Welsh, but it cannot account for consistent
> gwan- in Welsh
> and Middle Breton goan- /gwan-/ for that matter.
I'm not sure of the exact rules but Irish e varies
with P-Celtic a in many words; I still believe
*gWeneti with e>o here.
"tooth" de:t OIr; dant W; dans Co; dant Br
"hundred" ce:t OIr; cant W; cans Co; kant Br
"step" ceimm OIr; cam W; cam Co; kam Br
"tongue" tenge OIr; tafod W; tavot Co; teod Br
"being first" > "perceptive" ce:tbaid "sense" OIr;
canfod "perceive" W
for "tongue" Ngw > Nw > M > v in W/Co
I think this is enough evidence to at least show
athematic *gWHn, would become PG *gWen and PB *gWan.
> There is good evidence against a development *e > o
> by labiovelar
> rounding:
>
> OIr. geilt 'wild' < *gWelti- (MW gwyllt)
> OIr. crenaid 'buys' < *kWrenath(i) (lowering) <
> *kWrinati (MW pryn-)
> OIr. cethair 'four' < *kWetwores (MW pedwar)
> OIr. ceirt 'bush' < *kWert- (MW perth)
> etc.
In some cases there isn't; in others there is (see
below).
--- In
cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Anders R.
Joergensen"
<ollga_loudec@...> wrote:
I may have been a bit hasty:
Oh, good.
--- In
cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Anders R.
Joergensen"
<ollga_loudec@...> wrote:
In Schrijver's formulation, *kWe gives
*ku when followed by a consonant palatalized in the
first round of
palatalization (or followed by -Cu-).
There's more rounding than that:
pe:NkWe uper- nigW- pro-widhu-
peNkWe uper- nigW- prowidhu-
kWeNkWe uper- nigW- prowidhu-
kWeNkWe ufer- nigW- frowidhu-
kWeNkWe uxWer- nigW- xWrowidhu-
kWeNkWe uxWer- nigW- xWrowidu-
kWeNkWe uxWer- nigW- xWrowidWu-
kWoNkWe uxWor- nugW- xWrowudWu-
kWoNkWe uxWor- nugW- xWruwudWu-
kWoNkWe uor- nugW- xWruwudWu-
kWoNkWe wor- nugW- xWruwudWu-
kWoNkWe wor- nugW- xWru:dWu-
etc.
co:ig for- dofonuch ruud
and as I previously said:
wekWsperos sept_m gWHenti gWHedHyei
wekWsperos sept_m gWHeneti gWHedHyeti (analogy)
wesperos sept_m gWHeneti gWHedHyeti
wesferos seft_m gWHeneti gWHedHyeti
wesferos seft_m gWeneti gWedyeti
wesferos seftem gWeneti gWedyeti
wesxWeros sexWtem gWeneti gWedyeti
wesxWeros sexWtem gWeneti gWidyiti
weskWeros sexWtem gWeniti gWidyiti
weskWoros sexWtem gWoniti gWudyiti
veskWoros sexWtem gWoniti gWudyiti
feskWoros sexWtem gWoniti gWudyiti
etc
fescor secht(N) gonaid guidid
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