Piotr Gasiorowski wrote:
> Grzegorz Jagodzinski wrote:
>
>>> _Which_ two-class scheme do you mean? Jasanoff's?
>>>
>>> Piotr
>>
>>
>> But I described it in 40490
>>
>> Grzegorz J.
>
> Ah, I see what you mean. What this theory really deals with is the
> derivation of *-je/o- presents and oxytone simple thematics. This is
> something rather elementary, and my impression is that the authors are
> trying to reinvent the wheel. I wonder why they talk of just two
> "classes" while in reality the taxonomy of the PIE verb stems is
> somewhat richer and more interesting. I think nearly everybody here,
> and in the IEist community in general, will agree by now that
> deverbative presents in *-je/o- are derived from athematic aorists,
> while the <tudáti> type is of subjunctival origin.
The main idea of the article is that there were two classes of PIE verb
roots (yes, not stems but roots). Of course there were many different
present stems as well as some aorist stems but there were also rules saying
which present stems could have been formed for a given verbal root and which
could not. For example, the verbs of the 1st class were not able to form
thematic presents originally. There is not enough place to summarize all the
theses of the article (I am thinking of making a web page devoted to it).
The authors presented a quite abundant material to prove it. If nearly
everybody here can speak Russian, read that article, and are able to present
contrarguments, I am very interested.
> Of course _if_ the
> suffix remains accented, as in *gWm.-jé-ti/*gWm.-jó-nti (aor.inj.
> *gWém-t, *gWm-ént) the root is in the nil grade, but the whole
> problem is that in some cases the root is accented and has the full
> grade, as in *spék^-je/o-. Germanic *xafjan demonstrates that
> *káp-je/o- is a member of the barytone subclass.
Notice that in Sanskrit we have the 4th present class with -ya- which has
null grade in the root. All such formation had stress on the root vowel in
Vedic when it was possible! Examples: n'r.tyati 'he dances', yúdh-ya-,
m'r.s.-ya-ti, d-ya- (root da:-), pádyate 'he walks; he falls'. Do not mix
them with passive, like chid-yá-, which had null grade in the root but
stress on the thematic vowel. I do not know a -ya- present type with full
grade in Sanskrit. If you know, please give me more information. AFAIK only
secondary present stems of the 10th class (-aya-) could have the full grade
in the root but we are not talking about *-eje- (causatives) but about *-je-
(mainly statives and passives).
In other words, *kap-je/o- was a member of the barytone subclass with null
grade, like in Sanskrit. What is your evidence that the state in Sanskrit is
secondary?
> It can't be
> analogical, since there's nothing it could be analogical to. In other
> words, *káp- is not a substitute for a lost e-grade, but the e-grade
> itself.
Show me such a class in Sanskrit.
> Piotr
Btw. the meaning of Greek kapto:, kaptein 'gulp down' is close to the the
Slavic form (xapati 'catch with teeth') and it is another argument that the
Slavic word belongs to inherited lexicon and comes from *kH2ap-.
Grzegorz J.
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