[tied] Re: A Swedish battle

From: squilluncus
Message: 40792
Date: 2005-09-28

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Carl Hult <datalampa@...> wrote:
> This is what it says in the danish annals for the years 916-1263:
>
> 1210. Bellum Gestilren 15. Kal. August, ubi
> occubuerunt Suercherus rex et Fulco dux.
>
> It looks as if I was wrong. I can´t see any preposition at all but
I´m
> not a "latin lover", I specialize in celtic.

No problem. The placename is, as often, undeclined in the Latin
text.
It can be locative here, meaning "in".
Another possibility is simple apposition: "the Gestilren war"
(whatever Gestilren means?).

On the Eniro map I found Gästre in Uppland, but the other place
wasn't to find.
Is it in the neighbourhood between Kungslena and Dalum?
As a Scanian I am neutral in the contest between Vestgothians and
Svear but to me it seems more natural to have Sverker-supporting
Danes in Vestgothia than in Uppland. It is simply to debark at the
estuary of Ätran and then follow the river up into the heart of
Falbygden. I have read my Guillou!

Finding an etymology of Gestilren in a Latinized (con)text may be
difficult. But a metathesis of Gestrilen is quite plausible.

And to support the Svear I found this in Hellquist:

Gästrikland, fsv. Gestrikaland(ia) 1253,
sammansatt med gen. plur. av
folknamnet *gcestrikar (jfr y. fsv. tillnamnet
gestrekie), sannol. bildat av y. fsv.
by-namnet Gestereke, nu G as tre i Simtuna
hd Uppl., från vilket håll den fasta
bebyggelsen av landskapets inre delar synes
ha utgått. Senare leden: 'ekskog o. d.'
hör till ek, o. den förra är möjl. besl.
med Ity. geest f., hög o. torr (sand)-
terräng över sankare mark. Nordlander
Hist. tidskr. 1913, s. 212 f., Lindroth
NoB 1: 138. - Nsv. gästrike kan vara
den gamla folkslagsbeteckningen, men
också bero på yngre ellips från
landskapsnamnet. - G as t ring är väl en
analogibildning efter hälsing; den
föreligger i gen. plur. i Gestringaland O.
Petri Kr.

Yeah. He gives Gästrikland to originate from Gästre!

In manuscripts k and l are written very similarly and copyists often
confuse them. Perhaps it is in the neighbourhood of Gästrikland this
battle took place after all?

Who knows? I live in Scania and am neutral.

Lars


Lars