From: Patrick Ryan
Message: 39221
Date: 2005-07-14
----- Original Message -----From: zaldubbiSent: Wednesday, July 13, 2005 10:37 AMSubject: Re: [tied] The recent terror attacks; TREMBLEDear Patrick:
It's interesting enough basque DARDAR 'tremor, shudder', which could
be related to nostratic *DARE.
Zaldubbi
--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick Ryan" <proto-language@......>
wrote:
> Torsten,
>
> For whatever it may be worth, I believe the correct form of this
root in PIE is:
>
> Pokorny's 3. (*der-), 'tremble'; Pokorny's 1. *ter- is not a
separate root, nor a "Wechselform" (there is no such thing, in my
opinion), but merely an s-mobile form where the form _with_ *s- has
not been preserved.
>
> This is supported, in my opinion, by Egyptian d3 (/taR/), 'shake,
tremble'.
>
> The Nostratic form I reconstruct is *dare:.
>
> Since Nostratic *d becomes Arabic t, (tar)tara is the expected response.
>
>
> Patrick
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: tgpedersen<mailto:tgpedersen@......>
> To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com<mailto:cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2005 7:24 AM
> Subject: Re: [tied] The recent terror attacks prompting a question
>
>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com<mailto:cybalist@yahoogroups.com>,
"alex" <alxmoeller@...<mailto:alxmoeller@...>...> wrote:
> > tgpedersen wrote:
> > > Falk & Torp
> > > "
> > > 'dirre' in recent ablaut to Sw. 'darra' ODa. 'darre'. Next to it
> are
> > > forms with -dr- for -rr-: Nw. dial. 'didra' and 'dadra',
> > > Eng. 'didder' (and 'dodder'), G.
> > > dial. 'tattern', 'dattern' "tremble" [TP: cf G. 'zittern' id.].
> > > These side forms seem to represent different types of
> reduplication,
> > > a complete ('darra' from *dar-dr-ôn) and an incomplete ('dadra'
> from
> > > *da-dr-ôn); cf. Gr. 'toithorúzein' "tremble" from IE root
> > > *dher "jump" (Gr. thórnusthai), to which also
> > > Lit. 'drebù' "trembles" and Arm. 'dordoj^el' "tremble"
> > > "
> >
> >
> > See too Rom. "dârdâi" ( < *dardari or *dr.dr.-) and Alb. "dridhur"
> with
> > the same meaning of "tremble".
> > I guess here we have two distinct root, *ter- and *dar-
> >
>
> Bomhard: Indo-European and the Nostratic Hypothesis
>
> Proto-Nostratic *t[h]ir-/*t[h]er- "to tremble, to shake" > PIE *t[h]
> er-s-, *t[h]r-es- "to tremble, to shake", *t[h]r-em- "to tremble, to
> shake"; Proto-Kartvelian *t[h]r.t[h]- "to tremble"; Proto-
> AfroAsiatic *t[h]ar-/*t[h]ər- "to tremble, to shake"; Proto-
> Dravidian *tir- "to tremble".
>
>
> Møller: Vergleichendes indogermanisch-semitisches Wörterbuch
>
> 4*dh-r- 'zittern' (< voridg. T.-r- [Wechselform von t-r- 'zittern',
> s. 1t-r-]), redupl. dh-dhr- in norw. dial. dadra nhd.
> tattern 'zittern', nhd. tatterig 'zitternd', tatterich 'Zittern (in
> den Händen)' und norw. dial. didra ne. didder 'vor Kälte zittern'; +
> Laryngał mit urspr. suffixalem m- * d-răm-, reduz.
dr.:m- in serb.
> d`ìmati 'schütteln', d``rmnnuti 'erschüttern, erbeben lassen' (s.
> Berneker 255); + g- (: k-, < voridg. G.- : g-) idg. dh-rg- in mhd.
> turc 'Taumel', nhd. torkeln 'taumeln', mit n-Infix slav. dręg- >
> russ. drjagátĭ 'zappeln, zucken', serb. drézdati 'zittern' (vgl.
> Berneker 222), mit w-Infix (vgl. P. Persson Wzlerw. 223) idg. dh-rug-
> : dhr-ŭg- (urspr. kollektiver Bedeutung, s. die Noten zu 6p-l-
> 'pulex') gr. redupl.
τoiθορύκτρia ˙ ή
τoυς σεισμoυς
ποiοΰσa
> (Hesych), τoιθoρύζειv (? <
dh-rug- (: τoιθoρύσσειv
(< dh-ruk-)
> ˙σείειv)) : lit. drugŷs
'Fieber', russ. drozĭ 'Zittern,
> Fieberschauer', drozátĭ, drognutĭ 'zittern, beben' (s.
Berneker 231)
> = semit. *t.-r- [ *t-r-], s. 1t-r-, tr-m-, t-r-s-.
>
>
> 1t-r- 'tremere, zittern' (< voridg. t-r-), sanskr. taralá-
> 'zitternd, zuckend, unstäť; voll redupl. t-rt-r- (s. d.), gr.
> τaρτaρíζω 'zittre vor Kalte'; + m-
idg. tr-m- (s. d.), gr. τρέμω
> lat. tremo; + s- idg. 2t-rs-, tr-s-(s. d.), gr.
τρέω sanskr.
> trásati 'zittert'; + p- idg. tr-p-, abulg. trepetŭ 'tremor',
> trepātī 'palpare', lat. trepidus 'zitternd' (urspr.
verschieden von
> trepidus 'trippelnd' von 8t-r-);
> [: idg. dh-r- (< voridg. T.-r-), s. 4dh-r- S. 58] = semit. *t-r-,
> voll redupl. in arab. tartara trans. 'shook violently'; einfach
> redupl. t-r-r-, assyr. Prät. i-trur 'zittern, beben'; mit n-
> Präformativ n-t-r-, hebr. Impf. yittar 'aufspringen vor Angst',
> Pi. 'hüpfen' (von der Heuschrecke), Hiph. 'aufbeben machen'.
> Delitzsch 45. 54. SI. 3 f. 47 f.
> [: semit. *t.-r- (= idg. dh-r-), s. idg. tr-m-, 2t-r-s-.]
>
>
> tr-m- 'tremere' (== 1t-r- + m-), gr.
τρέμω lat. tremo,
> : semit. *t.-r-m- (= * t.-r- [: *t-r-, s. 1t-r-] + m-), + s- arab.
> t.ar-masa 'fugit (ab aliqua re)'.
>
>
> 2t-rs-, tr-s- (Erweiterung von 1.2t-r-, voridg. táras- : tarás-),
> sanskr. trásatì 'zittert, bebt', gr. τρέω
'zittre, fliehe', avest.
> þrah- 'Furcht haben' (Bartholomae Wb. 802f.), Part. tarsta-, sanskr.
> trastá- 'zitternd', gr.
ά-τρεστoς 'unerschrocken',
`έτερσεv˙
> εφόßησεv, lat. terreo 'schrecke', :
semit. *t.-r-s- (= *t.-r- [: *t-
> r-, s. 1t-r-] + s-), + Y.- arab. t.arsaY.a 'vehementer cucurrit prae
> terrore'.
>
>
> t-rt-r-, Reduplikation von 1t-r- 'tremere', gr.
τaρτaρíζω 'zittre
> vor Kälte', = semit. t-rt-r-, arab. trans. tartara 'movit, huc
> illuc concussit, he shook (-hu him or it), shook (him) vehemently',
> s. 1t-r-.
>
>
> Torsten
>
>
>
>
>
>
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