From: alexandru_mg3
Message: 35615
Date: 2004-12-23
>different
> Thanks for this update.
> I'm open to find out what is the real situation with these
> versions:
> 1. How many versions / inserts we have? What are the Reference
> Books that treat and analize these different versions (is there
> something on internet related to this subject)?
> 2. What are other 'on-line' versions that I can consulted (I
> cannot read in Russian or in Ukrainian etc...)?
>
> Thanks and Best Regards,
> Marius
>
>
>
>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, george knysh <gknysh@...> wrote:
> > Marius,
> > You seem to be using a defective "on-line" edition of
> > the Kyivan (or Suzdalian) Chronicle. And you keep
> > citing these erroneous readings as a mantra. I suggest
> > you switch to the Shakhmatov edition or some other
> > reputable version. See below for the corrected texts.
> >
> > --- alexandru_mg3 <alexandru_mg3@...> wrote:
> >
> > > "In 6406 (898) Magyars,
> >
> > [ who fought against Slavs and
> > > Walachians,]
> >
> > ****GK: There is no "who fought against Slavs and
> > Walachians" in the Chronicle's text HERE. It reads
> > simply
> > >"Ugrians
> > > marched past Kyiv on the hill, which nowadays is
> > > called the Ugrian Hill." Then the text goes on:
> >
> > "and coming to the Dnipro, they settled there in
> > their tents, for they were nomads like the
> > Polovtsians. And having come from the east, they
> > swarmed across the great mountains, which became known
> > as the Ugrian mountains."
> >
> > Then you have different texts depending on the
> > versions. The Kyivan Chronicle reads:
> >
> > "And they began to make war against the inhabitants."
> >
> > The Suzdalian version of the late 12th c. reads:
> >
> > "And they began to make war against the inhabitants,
> > Slavs and Wallachians."
> >
> > The Nestor text (composed between 1091 and 1115) of
> > the Kyivan Chronicle concluded thus:
> >
> > "And they began to make war against the inhabitants.
> > And they sat there with the Slavs, having subjected
> > these. And from that moment the land became known as
> > the Ugrian land."
> >
> > The Sylvester gloss (composed in 1116) repeated in the
> > margin of "inhabitants" the information it had given
> > earlier, in the undated portion of the Tale, about the
> > role of "Ugrians" in terminating the rule of
> > "Wallachians" in "Danubia". This actually referred to
> > the role of the Onogurs in assisting their Bulgar
> > allies in the conquest of the "Bulgarian Land"
> > (particularly the territory of contemporary Moldavia)
> > in the 7th c.). Sylvester wished to emphasize that
> > these Onogurs (or "White" Ugrians as he called them)
> > joined together with the "Black" Ugrians (Magyars
> > proper) in the invasion of Pannonia and Transylvania,
> > a "Slav Land" and remind the readers of the Onogurs
> > earlier role. Sylvester's s.a. 898 gloss read as
> > follows:
> >
> > "For Slavs sat here earlier, and the Wallachians had
> > taken the Slavic Land. And then the Ugrians chased out
> > the Wallachians and took control of the Land."
> >
> > When the gloss was drawn into Nestor's earlier text it
> > seemed to imply that it was the invading Ugrians of
> > 898 who "chased out the Wallachians". That is how the
> > Suzdalian editor understood it, and so he added "Slavs
> > and Wallachians" as above. (There are many more
> > examples of Suzdalian garblings of Kyivan texts,
> > subsequently imitated by Novgorodian
> > Chroniclers).*****
> > >
> > > "Thus Japhet's domain included also Northmen,
> > > Anglo-Saxons,
> > > Galicians, Walachians AND (so please read again,
> > > here is written :
> > > AND) Romans."
> >
> > *****GK: There is no "AND" in the text. It only exists
> > in your defective on line version.*****
> >
> >
> >
> >
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