Re: [tied] Walachians are placed far North the Danube in Nestor (10

Thanks for this update.
I'm open to find out what is the real situation with these different
versions:
1. How many versions / inserts we have? What are the Reference
Books that treat and analize these different versions (is there
something on internet related to this subject)?
2. What are other 'on-line' versions that I can consulted (I
cannot read in Russian or in Ukrainian etc...)?

Thanks and Best Regards,
Marius

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, george knysh <gknysh@...> wrote:
> Marius,
> You seem to be using a defective "on-line" edition of
> the Kyivan (or Suzdalian) Chronicle. And you keep
> citing these erroneous readings as a mantra. I suggest
> you switch to the Shakhmatov edition or some other
> reputable version. See below for the corrected texts.
>
> --- alexandru_mg3 <alexandru_mg3@...> wrote:
>
> > "In 6406 (898) Magyars,
>
> [ who fought against Slavs and
> > Walachians,]
>
> ****GK: There is no "who fought against Slavs and
> Walachians" in the Chronicle's text HERE. It reads
> simply
> >"Ugrians
> > marched past Kyiv on the hill, which nowadays is
> > called the Ugrian Hill." Then the text goes on:
>
> "and coming to the Dnipro, they settled there in
> their tents, for they were nomads like the
> Polovtsians. And having come from the east, they
> swarmed across the great mountains, which became known
> as the Ugrian mountains."
>
> Then you have different texts depending on the
> versions. The Kyivan Chronicle reads:
>
> "And they began to make war against the inhabitants."
>
> The Suzdalian version of the late 12th c. reads:
>
> "And they began to make war against the inhabitants,
> Slavs and Wallachians."
>
> The Nestor text (composed between 1091 and 1115) of
> the Kyivan Chronicle concluded thus:
>
> "And they began to make war against the inhabitants.
> And they sat there with the Slavs, having subjected
> these. And from that moment the land became known as
> the Ugrian land."
>
> The Sylvester gloss (composed in 1116) repeated in the
> margin of "inhabitants" the information it had given
> earlier, in the undated portion of the Tale, about the
> role of "Ugrians" in terminating the rule of
> "Wallachians" in "Danubia". This actually referred to
> the role of the Onogurs in assisting their Bulgar
> allies in the conquest of the "Bulgarian Land"
> (particularly the territory of contemporary Moldavia)
> in the 7th c.). Sylvester wished to emphasize that
> these Onogurs (or "White" Ugrians as he called them)
> joined together with the "Black" Ugrians (Magyars
> proper) in the invasion of Pannonia and Transylvania,
> a "Slav Land" and remind the readers of the Onogurs
> earlier role. Sylvester's s.a. 898 gloss read as
> follows:
>
> "For Slavs sat here earlier, and the Wallachians had
> taken the Slavic Land. And then the Ugrians chased out
> the Wallachians and took control of the Land."
>
> When the gloss was drawn into Nestor's earlier text it
> seemed to imply that it was the invading Ugrians of
> 898 who "chased out the Wallachians". That is how the
> Suzdalian editor understood it, and so he added "Slavs
> and Wallachians" as above. (There are many more
> examples of Suzdalian garblings of Kyivan texts,
> subsequently imitated by Novgorodian
> Chroniclers).*****
> >
> > "Thus Japhet's domain included also Northmen,
> > Anglo-Saxons,
> > Galicians, Walachians AND (so please read again,
> > here is written :
> > AND) Romans."
>
> *****GK: There is no "AND" in the text. It only exists
> in your defective on line version.*****
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Dress up your holiday email, Hollywood style. Learn more.
> http://celebrity.mail.yahoo.com