Alb. "vatër" ( it was (Re: [tied] Re: Albanian valle )

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alex" <alxmoeller@...> wrote:

> Piotr Gasiorowski wrote:
> >
> >> and even you don't like the idea of a Subtratum in Romanian:
> >> because the rule above (PAlb wa > Rom. o) will put in cause your
> >> proposed timeframes for Albanian language.
> >
> > This is directly contradicted by <vatrã>, where Alb. va-/vo- is
> > retained.
>
> >
> > Piotr
>
> Alb. "vatër", pl. "vatra"
> Rom. "vatrã", pl. "vetre"

Alb. <vatër> 'houshold, hearth, fire-place, home' is singularia
tantum. Todays plural <vatra> is due to analogy leveling of the
plural ending -ra of the nouns ending in Geg -en and Tosk -ër.

>
> If the word is native in Albanian, then it should derive from an

protoword

> in which in IE begun with "*wo-".
> Assuming this, then the word should have been borrowed from

Albanian by

> Romanians. This assumption is contradicted by the plural of the

Romanian

> word , which plural show us which vowel was in the original word.

The plural

> is "vetre" and, unless the change could be considered as analogy,

that means

> the word has been "*vetr-". If the word has been an "*vetr-" then

the word

> is a loan in Albanian from Romanian and the word in IE should have

begun

> with "we-", or "we:-"
>
>
> seeing the IE roots, there is none which beginns with "wa-", "we-

", "wo-"

> and which will fit with the meaning of "vatër". So, then is that a

non IE

> word? Any other possibilities ?

PIE root *a:ter- 'fire' > Albanian Geg <votër>, Tosk <vatër> is
regular outcome, for PIE /*a:/ yields in Albanian /o/. Suffixed zero-
grade form *atr-o- yields in Latin <atrabilious> 'able to be blacked
by fire'; also suffixed zero-grade form *atr-yo- yields in Latin
<atrium> 'forecourt, hall, atrium'. Compound zero-grade form *atro-
HkW- yields in Latin <atrox> 'frightful', literaly 'black-looking'
(*HkW- 'looking'). Old Persina <a:tar> 'fire'. To this root is
believed that belongs too Sanskrit <atharvan> 'priest' (*-van-
possesive suffix) attested also in Atharva-Veda 'holy wisdom', etc.
I should really not reply if I not notice the same formation in
Altaic languages, where we have *o:t - 'fire' and derivative
<oda> '(fire) room' that entered in all Balkan languages with many
derivatives: <odabash> 'inn manager', <odajI> 'cleaning (wo)man',
<odalI-ska> 'concubine'.

Konushevci

>
> Alex