Re: Alternance a-u in Romanian [...]

I. "Romanian Mures ['mureS] must've had an intermediary with
['mo-] in order to turn ['mu-]"

I have the same impression that the transition could be via an o:
*Mwa:risia/*Mwarisia > *Mworish(j)a > *Muresh


II. "So, Mara alone and Mara in MaramureS/MaramurãS haven't
changed to *Mura, yet ancient Marisia has. "

I fully agree with the observation above: not every -ara- passed
to -ura- in Romanian -> and the 'Maramuresh' example (region in nord-
nord-west of today Romania) is the best example that we can have :
because we have here both -ara- and -ure- inside the same word and
also an extraordinary thing we have both parts : Mara+Muresh as
distinct toponyms too in Transylvania:
Mara - river name but also female name
and
Muresh attested in antiquity closer to *Marisia

So the ideea that:
one -ara- (that later became -ura-) reflects an old phonem -wa-
(or maybe something else but in any case something that arrives to an
u at the end)
and the other -ara- (that remains -ara-) reflects a stable a
->
fits better as an explanation for these facts, if we compare it
with the idea that we have an assimilation-dissimilation process or
at least a contextual process.

Only the Best,
marius

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tolgs001" <st-george@...> wrote:
>
> alexandru_mg3@ wrote:
>
> > 'Maris'/'Muresh'
>
> Romanian Mures ['mureS] must've had an intermediary with
> ['mo-] in order to turn ['mu-]. In contrast with the other
> hydronym, Mara ['mara], in the Northern province of Maramures,
> whose Southern part belongs to Romania and whose Northern
> part to Ukraine (and whose local/regional name in Romanian
> is Maramurãs [mara'mur&S] and in Hungarian Maramaros
> ['ma:-rO-mO-roS]).
>
> So, Mara alone and Mara in MaramureS/MaramurãS haven't
> changed to *Mura, yet ancient Marisia has. (We don't know
> the exact pronunciation, by the autochtonous population,
> for Marisia. This is only the rendition by ancient
> chroniclers or geographers.)
>
> > 'sudui'/'shaj'?
>
> The verb <a suduí> [su-du-'i] "to swear at, scold, curse"
> is a Hungarian loanword <szid-> [sid]. Its reflex, as a
> noun, <sudalmã> [su-'dal-m&] is even more transparent: Hung.
> <szidalom> ['sid-O-lom]. Here, even the Hung. suffix
> -alom (or: -V+lVm) has been kept (as -almã, that in
> Romanian has no significance, except for the final -ã
> showing it is a feminine noun).
>
> >P.S.: Please also be reserved in your appreciations if you want
> >to enter in a discussion (see Piotr's moderation rules)...
> >I will not answer if you cannot do this.
>
> [SNIP: fullquote in top-posting]
>
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>
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