[tied] Re: work

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alex" <alxmoeller@...> wrote:

> Richard Wordingham wrote:
> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alex" <alxmoeller@...> wrote:
> >> Daniel J. Milton wrote:
> >>> Alex, can't you make it clear what you're talking about?

What

> >>> word in what Slavic language are you talking about? Cz.
> >>> treba, "perhaps" perhaps? Your subject line suggests you may
> > have
> >>> some t-initial form of the rab- group, with a well known
> > etymology <
> >>> I.E. orbho (Pokorny 1427).
> >>> Pokorny also gives one nonGermanic reflex of dhreibh, in
> >>> Lithuanian.
> >>> Dan Milton
> >>> **********
> >>
> >>
> >> Dan, Rom. "treabã" means "work" as well as trabajo, travaille,
> > trabaho. DEX
> >> consider to be a loan from Slavic "trEba". I assumed in Slavic

the

> > word
> >> meant too "work".
> >
> > False friends! The Western Romance words derive from
> > _trepalium_ 'an instrument of torture' - the implication is
> > unpleasant work. The Romanian word doesn't seem to have that

sort

> > of implication, and indeed there's Russian _treba_ 'religious
> > ceremony'.
> >
> > Furthermore, I would expect a cognate of French _travail_,

Spanish

> > _trabajo_ etc. to be stressed on the second syllable, not the

first.

>
>
> Fain, thank you Richard. And which is the etymology of

Russian "treba"?

> I suspect the semantism does not imply no problems.
> BTW, there is in South Slavic "treba" as verb "must" which does

happen to be

> in Rom. too "trebuie"
> with the same meaning "must".
> So I wonder about how "religious ceremony" became "must"

or "necesairre",

> "of necesity", "work", "must"
>
> Alex

************
First, the Slavic word for "work" is <trudu>, probably from o-grade
form *troud-o (*ou > u) of PIE root *treud- 'to squeeze' (cf. Alb.
<ndrydh> 'supress', prefixal derivative of *trud-nya: (u > y,
followed by long a:), <tredh> 'to castrate, emasculate', <trus> 'to
thrust', porbably from *trud-tya:, deverbative <trysni> 'pressure'
etc.; Lat. trudere). Other derivatives are probably
<trudbenik> 'worker', <zatrudneti> 'to be pregnant',
<trudnoc^a> 'pregnancy' and very good expression for etymology <crni
trud> 'hard work', literaly 'black work'.
I can't say anything about modal verb <treba> 'must' and
derivatives, like prefixal ones in <za-trebati> 'to be in need>,
<potreba> 'need', but <istrebati> 'to exorcise, to open'. Could it
be an extended bilabial form of PIE root *ter-b, I am not sure.

Konushevci