Re: [tied] Etymology of "Warsaw"

> petusek wrote:
> >
> > In Czech, the feminine of "kra:l" is "kra:lovna" < OCz kra:lovna =
> > "king's daughter" (kra:lov being probably gen.sg. of kra:l, and -na =
> > feminine noun deriv.)
> >
> > Petusek
>
>
> it won't explain the missing of "n" in "Craiova". But what if the name of
> the city was not a feminine but something like in the name of the rivers?

If

> we get into the name of the rivers we will have for instance the river
> "prahova" , the region "moldova", and the river Moldova in Czech. But the
> river Molova in Czech is "vlatava", isn't it? WIth the change of an older

Well, the Czech for Moldova is Vltava, not Vlatava (the /l/ being
syllabic)...

> "mold-" to "vlat-"?"m" and "v" they are both labials, the change of "b"

with

> "m" is known in some languages, the reduction of the cluster "mb" to "m"

or

> "b" as well, but do we have the same change of "m" with "v"?
>
> Anyway, we are to another suffix here. We got the starting point from
> "-ovia" which Piotr considered a fancy latinised form and we are now to
> "-ova" due my mention of ancient "ava" and Sava & Morava.
> BTW; if "-ovia" is a Latinisation of an Slavic name in "-ova", then can

onse

> say Trajan did the same and he latinised the Dacian "bersova" into Latin
> "bersobia" as he mentioned this village? Even if he did so, we cannot
> demonstrate (it I think)
>
> Alex

Well, "-ova" is a common feminine suffix in Czech (today -ová [ova:]),
meaning "belonging to, owned by", and it is used for derivating female
surnames. If somebody's surname is, for example, Král, Orel, Kominík etc.,
his wife' surname will be Králová [kra:lova:], Orlová [orlova:], Kominíková
[komin^i:kova]. The male, masculine form in modern Czech is -uv (u°v [u:v]),
and it is used to derive possesive pronouns, i.e. Kra'lu°v = Kral's, Orlu°v
= Orel's etc. In Russian, I guess, the same suffix is very often used in
surnames (Zhuk-ov, in fact = Zhuk's, Gorbachov, in fact = Gorbach's). In
Czech, similar suffix (-ovy: m., -ove: n. and -ova: f.) is used to derive
some adjectives from nouns, i.e. dver^e (a door) > dver^ova: (=door-like,
for the door, door as an adjective) fem. "dver^ovy:" mas. and "dver^ove:",
or from verbs, i.e. e.g. kulhat (=to limp) > kulhavy: masc. adj. limping,
gimpy etc. The suffix "-ava" is often used to derive toponyms (regions,
rives etc.), hence Morava (the name of a river between Bohemia and Moravia,

> Morava = name of the region in the Czech Republic, > latinized Moravia),

Vltava, Opava, Orava (Slovak river), Stonava, etc. I hope this will help
you :-).

Petusek