Re: [tied] OCS 'dovesti'

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "altamix" <alxmoeller@...> wrote:

> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "petusek" <petusek@...> wrote:
> > What does "vedon" mean? (1.ps.sg. praes. ind.? I am not sure,

tell

> > me,
> > please).
>
> I don't know either. I just have this form in my dictionary for the
> verb "a dovedi < Slavic "dovesti" (dovedon)."
>
> The question I started was because of Rom. verb "a dovedi" which
> means "to proove". The semantism of the verb due Slavic "do" which -
> how you explain- shows the action was fullfilled, makes a lot of
> sense if one connect it with the verb "to see". The verb to see

here

> in this case in Slavic "videti"(?) + preposition "do" will make the
> sense of "seen until at the end"=prooven but.... a "*do-videti"

does

> not explain the vocalism of Rom. verb and apparently there is
> no "videti" there but something else. If I point to the

word "vãdit"

> which means "clear" we have an another ecuation. The word "vãdit"

and

> the verb "vãdi" is considered to be from Slavic "vaditi", thus one
> will have here maybe an "do+vaditi" > "*dovãdi(ti)" > "dovedi(ti)"
> with the change of "a" to "e" via schwa , also a > ã and this "ã"
> > "e" because of the "i" in the last syllable.
> The semantic will work as well since the meaning "clear"(vãdit) +

do

> (until at the end)= will mean too "seen until at the end",
> thus, "prooven". Apparently the verbs "videti" in Slavic

and "vedea"

> in Rom. have influenced the perception of the verb in that way ,

kind

> of "weel seen"= "prooved".
>
> So for me, for Rom. "dovedi" there can be from Slavic "*do-vaditi"
> under the influence of the verbs "vedea, viditi" and not from "do-
> vesti" so I did not understood why DEX

considered "dovesti"(dovedon)

> as being the Slavic form for "dovedi". The "vesti" is simply "a
> vestí, veste" in Rom. and it remained unchanged at all, even
> the "ste" remain "ste" and does not became "s^te".
> So far my question is answered since the "do" was here the key of
> explaing the connection between "clear" and "prooven" vithout
> implying "dovesti". Thank you.
>
> > Petusek
>
> Alex

1. What does "vedon" mean? 1.ps.sg. praes. ind.? - Yes, I think.

2. The change d->s in "dovedon/dovesti" has been explained in details
by Alex.

3. The Rom. verb "a dovedi" which means "to proove" can be explained
by the Slavic "dovesti/dovedon" because this can be a second meaning
of that Slavic verb. The basic semantics being "to lead to some
point", the para-semantics is "to lead the discussion to some point".
Another word with similar semantic is "dovod" - "argument in a
discussion". ("Dovod" has the o-grade, "dovesti/dovedon" has the e-
grade.) Similar semantics can be found in "povod" (same radix,
preffix po-): motive, cause, reason.

4. There was probably the semantics "well seen" - "known" in Proto-
Slavic: veideiti (to see) and voideiti (to know). This is another
root, however. I think it is not related to the Rom. verb "a dovedi".

Regards,
Christo