Re: [tied] More water, poles, catch...

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Miguel Carrasquer <mcv@...> wrote:

> On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 09:25:01 +0000, tgpedersen
> <tgpedersen@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >Do these reconstructions make sense? :
> >
> >
> >TP:
> > *pagin > Pre-Pre-

Basque

> >EWBS:
> > agin, hagin, haghin "molar, cutting edge" Basque
> > agin- "promise, command" Basque
>
> Possible, as would be *kagin, *kakin, *pakin, *tagin, *takin
> (and all of them with *-m instead of *-n). I don't know if
> agindu has anything to do with hagin.

That's the general trouble with the complete loss of initial unvoiced
stop in pre-pre-Basqe, of course. As Vennemann also notes (he assumes
the same loss of initial unvoiced stops, as you probably know), one
has to have other reasons to assume any particular initial unvoiced
stop in the pre-pre-Basque ancestor of a vowel-initial (or h-initial)
Basque word. "The other reason" for me here is exactly the one you
note: the same root means "tooth" and "promise". The corresponding
Latin-Germanic root *pag-/*pak- means "pole" ("peg" is a
Nordwestblock loan in Germanic) and "treaty"/"agree". If the Basque
word and the Latin/Nordwestblock/Germanic root had shared just one
meaning I would have written it off to chance. Two so disparate
meanings (and it seems your scepticism with respect to combining
<agin> and <agindu> wasn't shared by those who chalked up <pa:lus>
and <pa:x> to the same PIE root) in my book mkes it very likely the
two roots are one and the same loan.

http://www.angelfire.com/rant/tgpedersen/Hp.html

>
> >TP:
> > *patt- > Pre-Pre-

Basque

> >EWBS:
> > ats, hats,
> > has, as- "trace, finger" Basque
> > hats "paw, foot of an animal,
> > footstep, imprint of any kind,
> > trace, example to be imitated,
> > joint, seam, race" Basque
> > hats "lower edge of piece of
> > clothing, false seam on
> > women's coats" Basque
> > has- "nourishment" Basque
> > has- "seed" Basque
> > has- "nail, claw, paw" Basque
> > eman "be busy with sth." Basque
>
> "to give"
>
> > atseman, atsaman,
> > ats^eman, ats^aman
> > hatsaman, hats^eman "seize, grasp, catch, find" Basque
>
>
> The Basque spelling is hatz.

I'll make a note of it. The entries are from Löpelmann, therefore
from the dialects on the French side.

> The basic meaning is paw,
> finger or foot(print), trace. I see no reason the derive
> -tz (< *-s) from *-tt (I think *-tt- > -t-).
>

Does that mean you've changed your mind on pre-pre-Basque since 1998:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?D1DD225A8

:
"2. *-p-, *-t-, *-k-, *-tz-, *-ts-, *-N-, *-L- derive from
geminates/consonant clusters." (perhaps I should have written *patC-
or *paCt-)? You provide no rule for them in auslaut.

Torsten