Re: Samus -> Zomus : Albanian transformation?

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alexandru_mg3" <alexandru_mg3@...>
wrote:

> Hello Abdullah,
> I want to thank you for your examples regarding the '-esh' sufix.
>
> In Romania we found it in a lot of endings for the Rivers (and
> Places) Names :
>
> -> Somesh - (Transylvania) - discussed here
> -> Ariesh (Transylvania)
> -> Muresh (Transylvania)
> -> Argesh (Muntenia)
>
> next we had the Rivers with "-ish" ( also indicatind in my opinion
> an Albanoid transformations ).
>
> -> Timish (Banat)
> -> Crish (Transylvania)
>
>
> All these Rivers are important Romanian Rivers (they are not

small

> rivers)
>
> So an 'Albanoid' evolution for all these Toponyms should be taken
> into account very seriously.
>
> Could you tell me what is your opinion regarding :
> Samus -> Zomesh as an 'Albanoid' transformation.
>
> Thanks again,
> marius alexandru
>
>
>
>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Abdullah Konushevci"
> <a_konushevci@...> wrote:
> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alexandru_mg3"
> <alexandru_mg3@...>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Abdullah, could you help me here with the origin of 'esh'
> > > termination in Albanian.
> > > Maybe when the Hungarians arrived, the form was
> > > already 'Zomesh' and not 'Zomush' but the name has
> > been "Latinized'
> > > with the Latin ending '-us' in the transcription of Hungarian
> Latin
> > > Chronicle.
> > >
> > > 6.5 The Hungarian attested 'Zomus' shows also that when

the

> > > Hungarians learned the river name (around 900AC) :
> > >
> > > a. the Albanoid pronunciation was more relevant than the
> > Romance
> > > one.
> > > b. or that the Hungarians loans an 'sV' like an 'zV'.
> > >
> > > I'm not sure which which of the points a) or b) are more
> > > probable.
> > >
> > > In any case this is the more likely scenario that I could
> > found
> > > to explain 'Samus->Zomus' and also the Romanian "Somesh'
> > >
> > > I appreciate any help to can clarify this issue.
> > >
> > > Best Regards,
> > > marius alexandru
> > ************
> > Dear Marius,
> > Albanian suffix -esh is very common in place names: Bradash-esh,
> Bren-
> > esh, Bulç-esh, Çikall-esh, Godol-esh, Kat-esh, Kotod-esh, Martan-
> esh,
> > Petr-esh, Zgërdh-esh. Also Albanian national name Geg <Arbn-esh>,
> > Tosk <Arbër-esh>.
> > According to N. Jokl, suffix -esh in <Arbn-esh> has its origin in
> > Latin -e(n)sis (cf. Albanensis). He adds that change /s/ > /sh/
> > testifies that this suffix is old, from Latin times.
> > To my view, as testifies different Illyrian tribes names, like
> > Oseriat-es, Dalmat-es, Labeat-es, etc., lake name Lychnid-es,
> > personal name Pinn-es, it can also be inherited from Illyrian
> > language. I guess that plural ending -es is used as expressive

one,

> > like plural ending -at in Progon-at, Lazar-at, Fil-at; or suffix -
> ini
> > in Illyrian place names: Ulc-ini-um, Rhiz-ini-on, Os-ini-um as

are

> > used Greek names of antiquity <Ai Athenai>, <Ai Thermopulai>, <Ai
> > Thebai>, etc.
> > Otherweise, river names, usually ended in Illyrian in -us: Margus
> > (today Morava), Pingus (today Bistritza), Dravus (today Drava),
> > Timochus (today Timok), etc.
> >
> > Konushevci

************
Beekes rule (9) is: *kWe- > s, *g(h)We- > z: sjell 'to turn' < *kWel-
, pesë 'five' < *penkWe-, zorrë 'intestines' < *gWe:rH3-na, zjarr <
*gWerm-. So, I believe that <Zomus> could be derived from *ghWe:mb-
us 'to spring, hop' (Pokorny, *ghWemb-).

Konushevci