Re: Samus -> Zomus : Albanian transformation?

Hello Abdullah,
I want to thank you for your examples regarding the '-esh' sufix.

In Romania we found it in a lot of endings for the Rivers (and
Places) Names :

-> Somesh - (Transylvania) - discussed here
-> Ariesh (Transylvania)
-> Muresh (Transylvania)
-> Argesh (Muntenia)

next we had the Rivers with "-ish" ( also indicatind in my opinion
an Albanoid transformations ).

-> Timish (Banat)
-> Crish (Transylvania)


All these Rivers are important Romanian Rivers (they are not small
rivers)

So an 'Albanoid' evolution for all these Toponyms should be taken
into account very seriously.

Could you tell me what is your opinion regarding :
Samus -> Zomesh as an 'Albanoid' transformation.

Thanks again,
marius alexandru




--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Abdullah Konushevci"
<a_konushevci@...> wrote:

> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alexandru_mg3"

<alexandru_mg3@...>

> wrote:
> >
> > Abdullah, could you help me here with the origin of 'esh'
> > termination in Albanian.
> > Maybe when the Hungarians arrived, the form was
> > already 'Zomesh' and not 'Zomush' but the name has
> been "Latinized'
> > with the Latin ending '-us' in the transcription of Hungarian

Latin

> > Chronicle.
> >
> > 6.5 The Hungarian attested 'Zomus' shows also that when the
> > Hungarians learned the river name (around 900AC) :
> >
> > a. the Albanoid pronunciation was more relevant than the
> Romance
> > one.
> > b. or that the Hungarians loans an 'sV' like an 'zV'.
> >
> > I'm not sure which which of the points a) or b) are more
> > probable.
> >
> > In any case this is the more likely scenario that I could
> found
> > to explain 'Samus->Zomus' and also the Romanian "Somesh'
> >
> > I appreciate any help to can clarify this issue.
> >
> > Best Regards,
> > marius alexandru
> ************
> Dear Marius,
> Albanian suffix -esh is very common in place names: Bradash-esh,

Bren-

> esh, Bulç-esh, Çikall-esh, Godol-esh, Kat-esh, Kotod-esh, Martan-

esh,

> Petr-esh, Zgërdh-esh. Also Albanian national name Geg <Arbn-esh>,
> Tosk <Arbër-esh>.
> According to N. Jokl, suffix -esh in <Arbn-esh> has its origin in
> Latin -e(n)sis (cf. Albanensis). He adds that change /s/ > /sh/
> testifies that this suffix is old, from Latin times.
> To my view, as testifies different Illyrian tribes names, like
> Oseriat-es, Dalmat-es, Labeat-es, etc., lake name Lychnid-es,
> personal name Pinn-es, it can also be inherited from Illyrian
> language. I guess that plural ending -es is used as expressive one,
> like plural ending -at in Progon-at, Lazar-at, Fil-at; or suffix -

ini

> in Illyrian place names: Ulc-ini-um, Rhiz-ini-on, Os-ini-um as are
> used Greek names of antiquity <Ai Athenai>, <Ai Thermopulai>, <Ai
> Thebai>, etc.
> Otherweise, river names, usually ended in Illyrian in -us: Margus
> (today Morava), Pingus (today Bistritza), Dravus (today Drava),
> Timochus (today Timok), etc.
>
> Konushevci