Re: [tied] Re: Accusative was allative

On Fri, 26 Mar 2004 21:42:35 +0300, Âàäèì Ïîíàðÿäîâ
<ponaryad@...> wrote:

>> In any case, these are all innovations. The original Slavic
>> system was sI "this", tU "that", onU (oblique je-) "that
>> yonder". The pronoun ovU.. ovU ( = Greek ho mèn .. ho dé,
>> "the one .. the other", "this one .. that one") stood
>> outside of the system, and was by its nature available to
>> substitute for a lost <sI> (as in Serbo-Croatian or
>> Macedonian), or for a lost [=> personal pronoun] <onU> (as
>> in Polish).
>
>This is the system of Church Slavonic, but the Proto-Slavic was wider. Some more traces of *vU: Rus. vot "here is...", von "there is..." < *vU-tU, vU-nU.

No, the v- is not etymological.

>> Yes it can. Once again, Aleksandr Vovin reconstructs:
>
>> Proto-Manchu-Tungus:
>> 1. *bi, *min-
>> 1. *bu, *mun-
>> (1 incl. *bï-t, *mïn-t-)
>
>> Proto-Mongolian:
>> 1. *bi, *min- (also *na-, cf. PK)
>> 1. *ba, *man-
>> (1 incl. *bi-da, *bi-da-n-)
>
>> Proto-Turkic:
>> 1. *bän ~ *män-
>> 1. *bir2
>
>> Proto-Korean:
>> 1. *(b)uri
>
>> Proto-Japanese:
>> 1. *ban
>
>No phonetical law on denasalisation of initial consonants has been established for Proto-Mongolian, Proto-Manchu-Tungus or Proto-Altaic. It exists only in Turkic. See new "Etymological dictionary of Altaic languages" by S.Starostin et al.

I wasn't trying to establish any law on denasalization of
initial consonants. I was merely noting the fact (shown
above), that initial *m- in the 1st. sg./pl. pronoun and in
the demonstrative (*bu) only occurs if an /n/ follows. The
Proto-Altaic etyma had *b(w)-.

>By the way, the mentioned Proto-Turkic reconstruction of 1Sg is surely incorrect.

I know. Vovin didn't take Chuvash into account.

>> The Anlaut of Goth. <jains>, German <jener>, Eng. <yonder>
>> suggests a development out of the relative/interrogative
>> stem *yo-.
>
>Such a development exists in Balto-Slavic as well.

I don't think so. Which Balto-Slavic (3-deixis)
demonstrative is derived from *yo-?

What we have in BS is the phonologically regular merger of
the anaphoric pronoun *i-s, *i-d, obl. *e-ot etc. (> jI,
*jI, jego) with the relative pronoun *yo-s, *yo-d, *yo-od (>
jI, je, jego).


=======================
Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
mcv@...