[tied] Re: Estimated timeframe of albanian s->sh transformation

> >century? Is that your usual standard of evidence?
>
> I wouldn't stretch the evidence so far as to take a localized Dutch
> phenomenon, first documented in the 19th century, and apply it to

17th

> century New Amsterdam Dutch, itself of doubtful influence on North

American

> English, when all the available evidence is that 17th century Dutch

had a

> standard rolled alveolar /r/ (cf. Afrikaans).
>

Do you have a reference to that evidence? And if one were to exclude
all 'localised phenomena' from linguistics, there wouldn't be much
left. Who's to say that the Gooise /r/ isn't a survival, overlaid
elsewhere with rolled alveolar /r/'s? The Leidenaars don't strike me
as a people that would adopt the language of straggling refugees from
the south, especially after having survived decades of Spanish siege.

Torsten