Re: Estimated timeframe from albanian s->sh transformation

Sorry please read:

"Applying the "Loan" theory s -> sh at this time is not started
yet..:


--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alexandru_mg3" <alexandru_mg3@...>
wrote:

>
> We have 3 transformations (s-s; s->sh; s->s) :
>
>
> I. Albanian last s->s is active somewhere VII-X century when the
> Slavs arrived in Balkans.
> Ex:
> sl. s -> alb. s and sl. s -> rom. s
>
> rom. coasã sl. kosa alb. kosë eng. scythe
>
> Both rom. s->s and albanian s->s : starting to be active somewhere
> between VII-X century (or even before but I take here the worst
> scenario):
>
>
> II. Albanian s->sh is active : this situation is ended Before

I.

>
> rom. c~apuS~a , alb. këpushë
> rom. gus,a , alb. gushë > from Lat. geusial.
>
> Note : at this time we have also an active : s -> sh
> (intervocalic) in Romanian
>
>
> III. An older albanian s->s active, this situation should be

ended

> Before II.
>
> Justification:
> Applying the "Loan" theory s -> sh at this time is ended. see
> Romanian 's' in :
> rom sterp ; alb. shterp
> rom. strung~a ; alb. shtrungë etcx..
>
>
> Now the question is : How long could take to a BASIC sound like /s/
> to GLOBALLY spread along a whole language in ALL PHONETIC CONTEXTS?
>
> Let's take first the situation when a single word is spread

GLOBALLY

> accross a language:
> Usually a single word like 'mouse' in 'computer language' took
> already about 25 years from its invention and its spread process is
> not finished yet. I'm sure that in a great part of Romania or

Poland

> or Albania, especially in the country side the word is still

unknown

> (the people there didn't arrive yet to see it, or to used it). So

in

> our times, its GLOBAL spread should be finished in at least 40-60
> years or even more.
> Now the speed of spread was about 2000 ago at least 5-6 times
> lower maybe more but I took the worst scenario for my theory. (no
> photos, no radio, no television, no schools, more isolated
> communities)
>
> Viewing this, 2000 years ago, a LOAN word can be spread GLOBALLY to

a

> WHOLE population in MINIMUM 200-250 of years.
>
> Let's consider now the timing that a BASIC sound like /s/ spread
> across Albanian and become /sh/ in all the phonetic contexts .
>
> It's obvious that this process should take more time that the time

to

> loan a single word (discussed above). This process is very very

slow

> at the beginning when a small group of people 'aquire this treat'
> (foreigners and not), and for 'unknown reasons' it arrives to

survive

> and to spread GLOBALLY on the whole Population. The MINIMUM time

for

> this Global Spread could be at least twice as the estimation of a
> single word so at least 400 years. But after its global spreading

it

> can very well remain active for awhile.
> Now we should add to this the fact that when a reverse process

(s-

> >s) will be started, the new process would take the same time too

in

> order to spread once again GLOBALLY on the whole population.
>
> Let's apply this assumptions to our case, taking the 'worst

scenario'

> for my supposition.
>
> So the global spread of s->sh in Albanian :
> - Took at least 400 years to spread globally.
> - It could remain stable for awhile (but I put here : 0 -
> years (worst scenario))
> - Took at least other 400 years to come back (s->s)
>
>
> Lets compute now the 'worst' scenario for my supposition :
>
> a) 1000 AD : s->s (see alb. site) fully active at 1000AC but

it's

> global spreading just ended around 1000 AD (worst case)
>
> b) minimum 400 years needed for s->s to spread globally in

place

> of previous s->sh transformation. We arrive in 600 AD.(worst case)
>
> c) 600 AD: s-sh -> is fully active at 600 AD, but it's global
> spreading just ended around 600 AD (worst case)
>
> d) minimum 400 years needed for s->sh to spread globally in

place

> of a previous s->s transformation. We arrive in 200 AD.
> (worst case)
>
> e) 200 AD : s->s fully active but it's global spreading just
> ended around this date.(worst case)
>
> SO IN THE WORST SCENARIO WE ARRIVE IN 200 AD WITH
> AN "ALBANIAN" s->s FULLY ACTIVE ACROSS THE WHOLE "ALBANIANS" (see
> rom. strunga).
>
> BUT at that time we are fully in the DACIAN TIMES. NO ALBANIAN
> AND NO ROMANIAN IN THE MODERN SENSE OF THE WORD EXISTED IN BALKANS.
> WE HAVE ONLY DACIANS, THRACIANS AND ILLYRIANS AND THE ROMANS
> THAT OCCUPIED THE ZONE.
>
> Conclusion:
> So the probability to have Albanian s->sh ACTIVE during Latin
> Loans in Albanian is ++ ('very probable') (from a list of 4
> values : ++, +, -, --)
>
> As result the assumption that : s->s should preceed the Romans
> arrival or at least (worst case) should be still globally active

just

> after Romans occupation of Dacia (200 AD in the worst scenario) is
> also very probable (++)
>
> As result : It's very probable that the 'loan' theory arrived with
> its timeframes in the latest Dacian Times sec. II-III A.C. ->
>
> And as result the "loans" theory is very probable (++) a NON-SENSE
> due to this. AT 200AD we have to talk about DACIANS, THRACIANS AND
> ILLYRIAN in this part part of the world : BALKANS, and not
> about 'proto-albanians' and 'proto-romanians'.
>
> So it's very probable (++) that today
> Romanian 'strunga' ; 'sterp' ; 'strepede' ; 'brusture' (and not

only,

> we have also the /dz/ words 'viezure', 'brad' ,'mazare' and others
> too : 's^ambure' , 'far^am~a' etc...) comes in Romanian and in
> Albanian too from the Dacian language (or less probable but not
> impossible from another old Balkan Language : Thracian or Illyrian)
>
>
> Best Regards,
> marius
>
> P.S. Viewing this, I ask myself why some people on this forum don't
> like to pass at all, the time frontier of Balkan Latin...