Re: [tied] Baltic-Slavic disintegration

George Knysh wrote:

> ******GK: My source contends that Bond. only reached
> the forest-steppe in its middle phase (the date is
> aproximately the same as yours), where it contacted
> (not replaced) with the Zeubna x.

OK

> (Sabatynivka phase
> of the latter).

Not all archaeologists agree that the Sabatinovskaya c. is a phase of the
Srubnaya one:
http://bronza-lib.narod.ru/g/gershkovich1995.html
I don't have my own opinion here, but the variant KMK [mnogovalik. keram.] >
Sabatinovka > Noua (i.e., the "Thracian variant") seems me more interesting
than Srubnaya > Sabatinovka (the "Aryan variant").

> The earliest phase of Bond. was
> further north, and it moved as a result of pressure
> from the Tshynetsk tribes (indubitably proto-Baltic
> these)*******

Do they think that it was pressure of the Trzciniec tribes and thus Bond.
came from the right bank of Dnieper? I doubt in it. The alternative variant
( pressure of the Textile Ceramics tribes on Pozdnyakovo > Bondarikhino)
seems to be much more argumented and realistic. At least the Bondarikhino
pottery follows the Late Pozdnyakovo traditions (some parallels with the P-C
pottery we can find already there).

> > 2) I know that some (even many) scholars consider
> > P-C cultures as
> > Finno-Ugric. I can't take this seriously. It's
> > impossibly to draw unbroken
> > line from them to modern Finnic or Ugric nations.
> > But from the "Setchataya
> > keramika" cultures it goes smoothly.
>
> ******GK: Would this correlate with early FU
> borrowings from IIr?*****

In my opinion FU borrowings from IIr have to happen earlier and more
eastern, in the Middle-Late Bronze Age somewhere in the N.Kazakhstan - Ural
region. The Textile Ceramics cultures (Late Bronze Age -Early Iron Age)
represent the descendants of those who loaned from IIr. It must be time of
intensive Finnic borrowings from Baltic (or Balto-Slavic?).
I think that there will be an occasion to describe this in more details in
the frame of the discussion with Juha Savolainen.

> ******GK: I have no particular position here. One
> argument for the (possibly) Baltic nature of Bond. is
> the suggestion that it is directly linked to the
> Yukhnovska Iron Age culture. But not all
> archaeologists accept that Y. is Baltic. In any case
> it is later assimilated by the Zarubynetska c.*******

The Yukhnovskaya culture belongs to the Textile Ceramics cultures. Thus I'd
expect that it was a Finnic one.

Alexander