Re: [tied] Dacian - /H/ -> seems not possible

From: alexandru_mg3
Message: 28067
Date: 2003-12-07

Hello Miguel,
Thanks for your answer.

One question:
You mean 'initial H' (like 'herba' or 'all the H' (like
in 'apprehendere' too) ?

However I still have some doubts (not related to your argument but
on the existance of Dacian /H/) : as you can see in Abdullah example
<lat. arcus -> <alb. hark....
So even if the latin words doesn't have any /H/, the speakers
could add a /H/ based on their own sound laws (or to keep their
own /H/).
But in the romanian 'substratum' words ('old words' but not
Latins) we don't have any /H/.

In this case we can have 2 interpretations :

a) Not the native speakers Learn Latin in Balkans (like
everywhere). The Romance population in Balkans (like everywhere) were
formed basically by Romans Colonists (Latins or not, but earlier
Latin speakers). This fit your explanation and Albanian /H/ too ->
but is hard to believe viewing historical similar situation in Europe
(Russian , Turk, Austrian Empires).

b) the native population that learn Latin in Balkans didn't
have a /H/ too (few Dacian toponyms exists like Hormia (could be a
wrong spelling)).
(still to solve in this equation the existance of Albanian /H/,
related to the supposition that the Albanian is a Dacian dialect or

Could you tell me if the Celtic populations have a /H/ before
they were Romanized? (French don't have any /H/ at this moment :
heure, haine, heureux...)

Thanks and Best Regards,

--- In, Miguel Carrasquer <mcv@...> wrote:
> On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 00:51:48 +0000, alexandru_mg3
> wrote:
> > b) Could we imagine that the Dacian had /H/ ?...I don't think
> > Despite some plant names at Dioskurides (in fact I found
> >one : Hormia ) there is no other dacian toponym that contains /H/.
> > Also romanian loans [sic] from latin don't have /H/ either
> Latin had no /h/ (it lost it very early on). Therefore, no native
> words have /h/, and no substrate /h/'s would have survived among a
> Romanized population.
> =======================
> Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
> mcv@...