Re: Dacian - /H/ -> seems not possible

From: m_iacomi
Message: 28068
Date: 2003-12-07

--- In, "alexandru_mg3" wrote:

> a) I want to ask you where you found Haprus for Dacian plant.
> (<lat. apricus)

There is no connection between Dacian plant name and Latin "a:pri:

> I have only a german version of Dioskurides where is marked :
> Dakier Aprus.

Dioskorides (Rom. Dioscoride) is a better spelling.

> Could you give me an url where Haprus appears?

> b) Could we imagine that the Dacian had /H/ ?...I don't think so.

Lacking any arguments, what you personally think is irrelevant.
Greeks transcribed some supposed Dacian word with "chi". Dacian might
very well have had some [h] in the phonetic system. Have it had it or
not, this phoneme did not make it in Balkan Romance (see Miguel's

> Also romanian loans from latin don't have /H/ either

There are basically no Romanian loans from Latin but inherited Latin
words in (Proto-)Balkan Romance which continuates Late VL. There is
no historical moment in which (Proto-)Romanian could have been in
contact with some kind of Latin to get words from. Please, do not use
improper terminology.

> (this logic is based on the supposition (-> need to be proved) that
> the romanian substratum is a dacian one).

Disappearance of /h/ from Latin phonematic inventory has nothing to
do with Romanian substratum. Your "logic" is flawed.
OTOH, Romanian substratum is most likely Northern Thracian-like.

> c) We only have romanian "hameS" (h~amesit) 'hungry' related to
> albanian 'hame:s' (whitout /sh/ ?!).

Your point being?

> d) Could everybody tell me if the latin loans in albanian
> contain /H/ ?

Latin aspiration disappeared early so it could not let any trace in
Albanian loans from Latin.

> Or albanian 'inherited' words?

You've had some answers on that.

Marius Iacomi