Re: [tied] Re: Alb. katër

Richard Wordingham wrote:

> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alex" <alxmoeller@...> wrote:
>
>> That is right. And this is because it seems to me Albanian presents
>> three way to handle this "kt" group.
>> 1) kt > t
>> 2) kt > it
>> 3) kt > ft
>>
>> I assume that "kt" > "t" is the inherited change from PIE,"kt"
>> "it" in
>> Latin loans "kt" > "ft" is from TodayKnownAsRomanians due "pt"
>> "ft":
>> The "pt" > "ft" seems more probable as "kt" > "ft"; at least we
> have
>> attested in several languages the change of "p" to "f" but I am not
>> aware of any language where "k" > "f" ( I know , there can be
> simply
>> ignorance by my side, thus examples of "k" > "f" excluding via "p"
>> should be welcome).
>
> Wilful ignorance?

No I followed the discussion there between Piotr, Miguel and you ; I
could not see any result as "similar" to "some limited example of
english" (about ks >ps)
I presume you recall the discussion of /kt/

>> /xt/ > /ft/ > /pt/ starting at
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/phoNet/message/642 and ending at
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/phoNet/message/647, even though your
> posting was rejected. (I ought to get round to publishing some of
> the off-line discussion of it we had.) For an example of /k/ > /f/,
> we have PIE *reuk 'pluck' (? - the German gloss is 'rupfen')
> (Extension d. of Pokorny root #1623 *reu 'tear out, acquire,...') >
> OE _ru:h_ > English "rough", formerly [rVf] in X-SAMPA, i.e.
> homophonous with English "ruff".
>
> Richard.

That is a bad examle: The german "rupfen" is Latin "rumpere", Thracia
"rompaia ( rendered by Greek as rompaia); The lost of "m" is in Rom.
today of old "rumpe" to actualy "rupe", so I think.
My dictyionary gives german "rumpfen" from "ruppen" belonging to the
same family as rubbeln; IE cognates are shown by "rubbeln"
I have no ideea how you would get from root *reuk Latin "rumpere" and
German rupp, both having already the "p" there; in fact it doesnt matter
how you draw it, you cannot avoid the stage "p".
Alex