[tied] Re: Albanian names (2) -> Besa, Besiana ("Google 1720" to "G

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alexandru_mg3" wrote:

> The real gain for every person is when he can learn something
> new. I'm here to confront my ideas and to learn something...

[...]

> But I'm sorry to say the arguments that are now on "the table"
> against : "Bess" are not really valid arguments...

... proving that despite your claimed disponibility, you still
have a hard time with that task.

> As an example : somebody wrote here that alb. "bese:" is a
> loanword in Albanian and we cannot take it into account based on
> its "s", or based on the Pokorny's list etc...

I mentioned the Pokorny and Demiraj entries, so I guess that
"somebody" from your phrase stands for my person. Therefore I
suggest you to read again what I wrote. I never claimed "besë"
is a loanword (nor I could have done that since Demiraj gives
the _inherited_ Albanian words). The matter is different: an
antique "bessa/i" could not have given the modern Albanian word;
as a matter of fact, neither Pokorny nor Demiraj reconstruct a
proto-form with /s/ [Pok. #210 *bheidh- (1) suggested by Demiraj
and Pokorny, or #227 *bhendh-; Proto-Albanian with /T(s)'/ instead
of /s/]. Hence, there is no etymological link between the ancient
tribe name and the modern Albanian word.

> ..however Hamp takes seriously the Albanian "s" problem when he
> writes regarding "besë" :
>
> "[...] The truth is that Albanian shows a present-day s (pasë 'had
> [participle]', besë 'faith, loyalty') [...]. This must go back to
> a groove affricate, perhaps *ts. "

... that is: *not* an /s/, in perfect agreement with what was
already said above.

> As context of the current item I would add :
> a) today Albanian language could be very well at least a
> mixture of a Daco-Getae dialect and "something else" ...if
> not a full daco-getae dialect...(my opinion).
> b) I also show here, based on the P^arvan presented toponimy (not
> invented by him) that historically we had a Dacian infiltration in
> today Albania...(see also "dava" toponimy map to other authors...)
> ...so we cannot reduce this example on a coincidence among 3-4
> letters : "bess"

You're mixing up unrelated and irrelevant things.

> I need to consult some books before to can say anything... [...]

That is correct in general (not only with respect to toponyms).

> So please show me the proof ...I will read, if needed, additional
> stuf on Albanian historical linguistics, before to come back...

Since you're willingful to read, try first with some general
linguistics as compulsory step before any specialized issues.

Cheers,
Marius Iacomi