Re: [tied] husk

m_iacomi wrote:

> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alex" wrote:
>
>>> I have nothing against proper reconstruction, when justified. Your
>>> reconstructed forms are neither proper, nor justified. BTW, you
>>> should think about etyma of "oaspe".
>>
>> Do you point here out to missing "h" in "oaspete" or you are meaning
>> here the diphtongation of "o". For the diphtongation of "o" I guess
>> there is nothing to add; for missing "h" there is a lot to say.
>
> Not only that. Your "reconstructed" forms do not have any hint
> about language they belong and intended timing for that matter.
> Therefore they're just a bad joke up till now.

Aiurea. There are imediately protoforms of "hoaspã". It doesn't matter
from which language it derived, the /oa/ is typical Romanian here and
the /ã/ can be just from an /a/ or /e/. In several cases it can be from
an Slavic /o/ at the final of the word.

>> The Latin spoken everytime in that part of the world should be
>> now Romanian, thus since there is no "h" in the Rom. words which
>> derive from Latin, then there cannot be any inherited "h";
>
> I was clear enough, though you still fail to get the point. Balkan
> Romance did not possess the _phoneme_ /h/. Thus any aspiration could
> not have a phonological value. Ergo, it necessarily has to have been
> dropped out from the system for some centuries, it couldn't possibly
> have survived only to perpetuate a few supposed marginal substrate
> words.

No. You are just kidding. I quote from your message here:

> Coming to the proposed word, Latin /(h)ospe(s)/ became at some
> stage [ospe] in Late Latin. Any similar substrate word "*hospe"
> would have had a similar treatment, so one cannot get a final /&/.
> More than that, /h/ would not have survived.
>

Thus if the "h" became mute _already_ in Late Latin, then it could not
be borrowed into Rom. with "h". And this explains why we have
substratual "h" in initial words and no "h" from Latin words.

>
>> This is your way to see the things.
>
> The way in which most specialists do see the situation.
>
>> The problems you will have here are the Albano-Romanian cognates
>> which begin with initial "h".
>
> Supposed substrate but not substrate -- at least for Romanian.

Your opinion based on the ferm idea the Romanian is the Latin Language
and not a Language which has a lot of Latin loans.

>
>> I don't bring here as example the word "harmãsar" (stallion)
>
> Why do you mention it then?! just in order to prove that debating
> that word some weeks ago didn't had any inpact on your RAM?

No. just because for the harmasar it is given as etymology -missing
something better - this "equs admisarrius". BTW, since Latin "dm" did
not became "rm" in Rom, why don't you see Romanian "harmãsar" as a loan
from Albanian?

>
>> neither I will give _now_ several examples. I will limit myself
>> just to only one:
>> hãmesit (hungry); Albanian "hamës".
>> For Albanian the explanation is simple since the verb "to eat"
>> is "ha".
>> For Rom. "hãmesi" DEX shows Albanian "hamesi" here.
>
> So?! does that make the word from substrate?! Al. Philippide
> and Al. Rosetti mention this possibility, but nobody else does,
> you don't wonder why?! The term is found only in Daco-Romanian,
> initial /h/, only one derivative... well, facts do speak.

Missing the word in Aromanian HAS NO VALUE!! "Viezure" is too not in
Aromanian .

>> Well, this is an opinion about his whole presentation. I did not
>> allowed myself to say something about whole thing; I just pointed
>> out to a special word to a special PIE root. Not more.
>
> Still a diversionist action.

You are just disperately blushing, that is all. Precisely on the object
you are avoiding the discution about in this case.

>
>>>>> No substrate.
>>>>
>>>> haide bre!
>>>
>>> Still no substrate.
>>
>> Turkish has no aspiration here.
>
> Still no substrate.
> Since interaction with Slavic, Romanian got the phoneme /h/ as new
> member of its' system, with equal rights and the possibility to be
> written down if instated for some expressive reason.
>
> Marius Iacomi

Ha! Yes. And all the interjection who I presented once here which beginn
with "h" are all the result from the Slavic contact..
Halal. ( this is 100% turkish loan:-))))

Alex