Re: Ducks and Souls

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "m_iacomi" <m_iacomi@...> wrote:

> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tgpedersen" wrote:
>
> >>> I trust the Slovenians.
> >>
> >> It's more likely a singular: Dr. Jozko Savli. [...]
> >> the plural of authority, extensively used in scientific papers.
> >> So one should rephrase: "Dr. J.S., based on his general

knowledge

> >> background, believes that duck was a symbol of the universe, a
> >> conclusion not shared by others.".
> >
> > Note J.S. mentions duck with goose, Latin 'anser', German 'Gans'

<

> > *gHans-; note the unexpected initial, pointing to loan (and
> > strengthening the suspicion of a pun).
>
> Why pun?

Bad formulation. The presence of one more word beginning in an-, not
the variation in the anlaut consonant, strengthens that suspicion.

>
> >> Not too much for evidence of a link with soul...
> >
> > Your conclusion about J.S.'s conclusion was hasty...
>
> Nope. You indicated a source to support your claim about linking
> ducks with the notion of `soul` for some pre-historical moment. I
> pointed out that your source doesn't offer too much support for
> your claim.
>

You were guessing J.S.'s made up the duck-soul link all by himself.
That was hasty, given the other evidence easily found on the net.

> > Found in
> >
> > http://www.hgo.se/nordark/sspa9196.pdf
> >
> > Andreas Hårde, 1994
> > The divine duck of Hallstatt
>
> So?! The pdf is nothing else than a list of references.

Yes, and the Andreas Hårde article is one of them. The title shows it
contains some type of discussion of the duck-soul link.

> > Same guy, this time with _the_ pun:
> >
> > http://www.hgo.se/nordark/sspa9799.pdf
> >
> > Andreas Hårde, 1998
> > Andlighet eller anklighet i Hallstatt?
> > Spiritualism or just ducks in the Hallstatt culture?
> > A critical study of the understanding of the iconography
> > from a structural point of view with reference to the
> > mythopoeia and interpretation of myth structures
> > associated with bird depictions from Central Europe
> > during the Urnenfelder period and the Hallstatt period
>
> The same: list of references. I haven't read his article and
> you didn't provided at least a significent extract, along with
> his bibliography.

I haven't read it either. I just happened to know that the theory
existed. If you you want to satify your curiosity, read the article.

>
> > Low-grade, but the rumour must have spread
> >
> > http://www.milanocastello.it/ing/sezionePreistoricaFerro.html
>
> "A duck-shaped jar and bird-shaped cups seem to have been intended
> for ritual purposes. According to Nordic mythology, in fact, the
> aquatic bird is linked to the cult of the sun god, as it symbolizes
> a boat with bird-shaped stem and stern carrying the sun around the
> sky." are the only phrases regarding ducks. It's supposed meaning
> of `Sun God` is not in clear fit with `symbol of the universe` and
> by no means agreeing with `soul`.
>
> > I wonder who 'ibid.' is here:
> >
> > http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7171/celtic.html
>
> The guy writes: "For example: "At Hallstatt, ducks appear swimming
> up the supports of a bronze container, which also is further

embossed

> with ducks and wheels on its side." (ibid., p. 26) Apparently,
> scholars believe that ornamentation of this kind was meant for
> cultic purposes."
> ... but doesn't tell what was actually the supposed cultic meaning.

So now you have one more reason for ordering Hårde's article.

> The "ibid." is of course, <Laing, Lloyd and Jennifer. Art of the
> Celts. London: Thames and Hudson, 1991> as appears in the text.
>
> > It took me 30 minutes to find these references on google. I wish
> > you guys would do your homework better.
>
> This was not my research homework and

The one you didn't do?

>OTOH your initial message
> was claiming that J.S. provides support for your duck <-> soul
> link, not that ducks could have had some cultic meaning according
> to various authors. Well, you still have to argue that link.
>

Yeah, right. Happy reading.


Torsten