voiced & voiceless [Re: Enclosed Places]

From: tolgs001
Message: 24496
Date: 2003-07-13

>George, I try to be very quiet:-) I f... up the official spelling
>established by I don't know what for inteligent or bad heads.

Well, that piece of info was for the list as well
(otherwise, there's the email and resorting to
other list communication, you know ;).

>I just compare the way to speak and nothing more.
>This "sg"= phonetical interdiction is is dead sure :-)

I know, most of us know this.

>allowed= "sc" but not "sg"
>allowed= "zg" but not "zc"

Here, I would've add my comment (meinen Senf ;):
while the cluster [zk-] in the beginning of any
Romanian word is impossible, [sg-] is conceivable
-- at least in theory. Just try yourself to say
"Pisica blanda zcîrie rau" and "Pisica blanda
sgârie rau". I'm sure you won't have any phonetic
problem with the 2nd sentence.

(Of course, I know that Romanians tend to assimilate
such clusters, making them voiced. This is why in
foreign words/names they tend to have typical pro-
nounciations, such as Ijvan for Hungarian István
[iStva:n] and jvab for German schwab(-) [Sva:b].)

>No, no, let us be sachlich. There is a nice refugees
>to say "is a stimmhaftes k". I don't accept it as so.

I wished to say don't make an elephant out of a
gnat (as the saying has it in your mother tongue):
voiced k and voiceless g - the differences are so
minimal, that they virtually don't matter (just
imagine that some foreign students in RO haven't ever
had problems in oral exams for uttering [g] instead
of [k]: "gonzdruirea agesdei gaze e munga de greadzie,
ageazda e gongluzia de gare sund gonvinz" See? At
the same time I voiced the [t]+[s]+[tS], but neither
you nor any other Romanian-speaker will have troubles
to read and understand the ad-hoc sentence above :-).

>Alex

George