Re: [tied] Re: some terms for George

--- tgpedersen <tgpedersen@...> wrote:

> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, george knysh
> <gknysh@...> wrote:
> >
> > --- tgpedersen <tgpedersen@...> wrote:
> > > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Piotr
> Gasiorowski
> > > <piotr.gasiorowski@...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > 16-06-03 17:36, m_iacomi wrote:
> > >
> > > According to Webster, relative to "church":
> > > "Etymology: Middle English chirche, from Old
> English
> > > cirice,
> > > ultimately from Late Greek kyriakon, from Greek,
> > > neuter of
> > > kyriakos of the lord, from kyrios lord, master;"
> > > Probably between OE and "ultimately Late Greek",
> > > there should be
> > > indeed some Latinized "kyriaca".
> > > Why neuter? The word is a weak feminine in
> Germanic,
> > > and its *-o:n-
> > > stem formant (OE cirice, acc./gen./dat.
> ciricean)
> > > has nothing to do
> > > with the nom./acc. sg. -on of Greek neuters. If
> > > anything, <kuriake:>
> > > [kiriaki] fits the bill better than any other
> form.
> > > No Lat. *cyriaca
> > > is attested, so it's easier to assume that the
> > > borrowing was directly
> > > from Greek, not via Latin.
> > >
> > >
> > > Two questions:
> > > When?
> > > Where?
> > >
> > > Torsten
> >
> > GK: "kyriakon" is attested in the Catechesis
> of
> > Cyril of Jerusalem (+386), but there could
> obviously
> > have been other forms in use. As for the concept
> > itself, its continuity in the Greek-speaking areas
> > from the 4th century on is clear enough. The
> > "borrowing" could thus have occurred at any time
> and
> > circumstance between, say, ca. 300 and the
> verified
> > and datable presence of this "church" word in a
> > Germanic language.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> But the question was: where? I can only see two
> possibilities:
>
> 1) In an area where Greek and Germanic was adjacent.
> That means
> Gothic and what else?

*****GK: Gothic certainly looks like the best bet. But
any of the peoples in Attila's confederacy. for
example, could have picked this up and passed it
on.****

>
> 2) In a Germanic people that was christianised by
> Greek-speaking
> clergy. When did that happen?

*****GK: The inclusion os a word in a language does
not require some systematic process of
Christianization. What about the groups which settled
in the Eastern Empire after 453. They could have
maintained contacts with northern kinsmen. But really,
there is no need (and probably no possibility) of
determining the exact manner of the transmission. We
have the result, and it is indubitable.*****

>
> Torsten
>
>
>
>
>

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