Re: [tied] truncus [Re: Androphobia sucks]

From: alex
Message: 22367
Date: 2003-05-29

Abdullah Konushevci wrote:
> Dear Alex,
> It's my view and I think it's very regular change in Albanian s/c
> (ts). Comp., for example, sak 'exact' and cok 'id.', disa 'some' and
> ca 'id.' or the long row of hypocoristics: Hasan > San > Can, Hysen >
> Sen > Cen, Sabile > Sile > Cile, Sokol > Sol > Col, etc. Is it
> Albanian loan in Romanian or not, I don't know, it depends on
> meaning.

sak= ecsakt, this one does not show a k > s ; there is by default an /s/
Do you mean that from "exact" you have both "sak" and "cok" ? . If you
assume s= k here, ok but how you want to explain the /o/ in "cok" in
the same phonological medium?

There are several words I put together after the anaylse of the paar
"cioarã/sorrë", "cãciulã/kasulë" where is regulary a Rom "ci/ce" and an
Albanian "s".I guess even in the demonstrative pronouns which I asked
you about seems to be the same rule:
Rom. "acei", Alb "asaj". I will give it to you when it is ready.
If the word is a loan into Romanian then it must have been loaned from
Albanian in the time the word was still "ci".
You agree there is no way from getting an "ci" from "s" or you assume it
is possible to have an "ci" from "se-"?.

> Also, after the nasals, at most, all stops becomes voiced,
> so the change *sunk > cung was happen lege artis.

Even in the neologisms or just in the inherited lexicon? I think now
that in Rom. there is not always voiced after nasal:
strunga, patrunga, lânga, crâng, creanga, but Sunca, brânca, lunca,

> I hope we have solved the problem of affricatization of sybilants at
> the beginning of the word in this list.

Not really. I understood that /k/ > /c/ > /s/ but I have still trouble
in seeing how /s/ > /c/

> I can't find the Italian word "ciunco", even I have one of the best
> dictionary of Italian language "Taljanksi-hrvatski rjecnik" by Josip
> Jernej, one of my best proffesors.

I can scan the page of the DEX or mabe Mr. George will take a look in
its older DLMR ( is this the abbrev. ?)
I took a look again and I verified the word. It is given as "c i o n c
o" and it should be Italian.