Re: Ukrainian words from Carpathians_barda

From: tolgs001
Message: 21940
Date: 2003-05-16

S & L wrote:

>"Barda" is most probably a common loanword from Hungarian
>(also in Romanian)

Of course it is. A Germanic one; actually, German:
die Barte (because the edge evoked a... beard) or
die Barde; also die Hellebarde.

As such in Hungarian too: bárd a.k.a. csatabárd
(verbatim in German "Streitaxt"), alabárd (verbatim
in German "Hellebarde").

> word: cuman balta; turk baltak, cf baltag.

As for the Romanian baltag, noteworthy that the
Turkic/Turkish variant's spelling is balta
(without -k) as is the Hungarian one. (The
Romanian -g ending might be reminiscent of
either a Turkish -k or a Hungarian -g ->
the latter suffixation influence being typical
in these Romanian forms: -($)ug, -ag, -ig).

>Edelspacher even think that it was imported
>in Hungarian from Romanian language.

I don't think so: bárd must've been borrowed
from German (look at *csata*bárd, and *ala*bárd,
the former a *loantranslation*, the latter a
genuine loanword - both from German; while in
Romanian there is neither a notion "Streitaxt"
= "csatabárd", nor is the word "halebarda" an
old term in Romanian (quite the contrary, a
pretty recent word).

>Gamillscheg think that this word in romanian
>language is coming directly from the longobard
>language [barda].

If Ernst Gamillscheg wasn't exaggerating, then
this would be a Germanic loanword in Protoromanian,
directly acquired. :)

>S o r i n

George