Re: [tied] Re: Ban_Pan [cardinal points]

From: alex_lycos
Message: 21675
Date: 2003-05-10

tolgs001 wrote:

>
> But the question refers to "ban", which in
> Hungarian is "bán" [ba:n]. And we know that
> this title (belonging in certain periods of time
> to high-rank nobility) was chiefly used in the
> Serbo-Croat areas and in the Hungarian
> neighboring provinces only (Croatia and
> certain Serbian areas were included in the
> Hungarian kingdom too). Romanians also
> had sort of a duke, "the ban", of their own
> only in the realm of Oltenia, starting in the
> 13th century -- possibly because
> the possession included the former banate
> of Severin (Szörényi Bánság), that belonged
> to Hungary and played some major role
> exactly on the eve of the creation of a greater
> important Romanian state between the
> Carpathians and the Danube -- a state that
> engulfed Oltenia too (the rulers of the greater
> state were at the same acknowledged feudal
> lords over some regions in Southern
> Transylvania as well)
>
> So, what kind of word is "ban"? Turkic (Avar
> or Protobulgarian)? Or Slavic? (I guess that
> Hungarians either borrowed it from the
> South Slavs or from the... Turkish language
> of the ruling class of the incipient Hungarian
> nation - 8th-9th centuries.)
>
> George


I guess you cannot let alone ban/pan here. One must absolutely take a
look at the other words as " ju-pan" and "sta-pan".
since jupan looks to me now lonely ( no, I do not make any connection
with Dacian "paneus" specialy with Diupaneus ( known as Diurpaneus too),
let us see about "Stãpân". It looks not so alone here. What about the
name Stephan? Which is the etymology of this name? Does it eventually
means "ruller" ? Stefan seems a german rendering since the romanian
equivalent of this name is "Stepan" ( see Stepan sin Nanu ot BãlteSti).