[tied] Re: vulgar Latin?

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Miguel Carrasquer <mcv@...> wrote:

> On Wed, 30 Apr 2003 22:18:45 +0000, Abdullah Konushevci
> <a_konushevci@...> wrote:
>
> >Just speculations, but IMAO the Latin vapor, -oris 'vapor, steam'

is

> >a proto-model of Italian vapore, French vapour, English vapor
> >(through French). I never read that this Latin word was written

with

> >semivowel w, but allways with sonorizedfricative v, not even in
> >Clasic Latin.
>
> Of course it was never written with "w" in Classical Latin: that
> letter didn't exist yet. The pronunciation of Latin V was either
> vocalic /u/ or consonantal /w/.
>
> I don't see how Romanian <abur> can be descended from <vapore>.
> Initial v- is not usually dropped, intervocalic /p/ does not become
> /b/ (that's Western Romance), and /o(:)/ does not become /u/ (except
> before nasals).
>
> The change kw- > w- in vapor (vapo:s) is irregular. We also have
> caseus "cheese" from *kwatH-, with *kw- > *k-. Gamqrelidze & Ivanov
> give another possible example, but with *k^w- instead of *kw- (both
> not to be confused with labiovelar *kW), namely vitrus "glass" ~

Skt.

> s'vitrás "shiny" (from the "white" root *k^weit-).
>
> The online Demiraj gives the etymology of Albanian avull as:
>
> Albanian form: avull [m] (tg)
> Meaning: vapour, damp
> Proto-Albanian: (h)au-ul- {1}
> See also: aft
> Page in Demiraj AE: 85
> IE reconstruction: h2euh1-Vl-
> Meaning of the IE root: vapour, steam
> Certainty: +
> Page in Pokorny: 82
> Other IE cognates: Rom. abure `steam, damp'
> Notes: {1} Alb. formation with the suffix -ull.
>
>
> =======================
> Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
> mcv@...

************
It seems quite regular and correct reconstruction, but what about
Romanian abur, which I am afraid preserves much older form than
Albanian avull.
I hope that You will agree that in Indo-Iranic branch, the PIE root
for water was *ab- (cf. abdes, Turkish form of Persian compound <
ab 'water' and dast 'hand', hoshab < Pers. hosh 'good' and
ab 'water', gülab < Pers. gül 'rose' and ab 'water', abi 'blu', etc.)

Konushevci
Konushevci