Re: [tied] *tro~tu ( it was the bee)

----- Original Message -----
From: "alex_lycos" <altamix@...>
To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 9:45 PM
Subject: Re: [tied] *tro~tu ( it was the bee)


> And? Do you suppose it is a loan from Slavic?

Yes
>
> It is intetresting to see the /d/ from root *dher- went in Nrth idg in
> /d/ and south in /t/.
> See the Greek: thronax and tenthrene

Slavic *tro~tU does not come from *dHer-. The East Baltic cognates (Lith. tranas, Latv. tranis) suggest an onomatopoeic "root" *tran- in Balto-Slavic. All these "droning" words are to some extent imitative, hence their vague similarity. Technically, Eng. drone might be related to Gk. tHro:nax, but the correspondence is not flawless and even the common Germanic reconstruction of the 'drone' word points to a variable onomatopoeic pattern rather than a single protoword.

> The Rom cluster "ân" seems more probabl from an "an" as from slavic
> "o~", don't you find?

Jeeeez, Alex, we've been through this many times, and you don't seem to remember anything. Slavic *o~ is NORMALLY reflected as Rom. <âN> (<îN>) in laonwords!

> An argument against slavic "o~" : there is the word "trântã" = wrestle, "a trânti"=to throw down; (pe cineva la pamânt) to throw;to knock down; (la examen) to pluck; (usa) to slam (într-un fotoliu) to fling oneself (into), to plump oneself (down); (în pat) to tumble (into bed) this one is explained trough _like_ Bulgarian "tãrtja"

Pol. tra,cic' (< *tro~ti-ti) 'knock, nudge' is an ideal match for <trânti>.

> Don't you think they are just cognates but not loans ?

No, because Romanian words in question have exact matches ONLY in Slavic and not elsewhere in IE. It's extremely unlikely that we shall ever know the Dacian word for 'drone'. An explanation referring to unattested and unreconstructible forms is completely useless.

Piotr