Re: [tied] the bee

Piotr Gasiorowski wrote:

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "alex_lycos" <altamix@...>
> To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, April 21, 2003 4:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [tied] the bee
>
>
>> Moment. Shouldn't latin "ct" gave an "ft" in Albanian? We have seen
>> the explanaion where Latin "lucta" gave Albanian "lufta" ?
>
> A good point, but there's a subtle difference between Romanian and
> Albanian in this respect. Romanian has /pt/ and /ps/ from VLat. /kt/
> and /ks/ no matter what precedes; Albanian, on the other hand, has
> /ft/ and /fsh/ after back vowels only; elsewhere the /k/ was
> palatalised, eventually yielding modern /j/, hence *drEkt- > Rom.
> dreapta but Alb. drejtë

Not always. For instance if rom. "potârniche" is a derived of Latin
quoturnix ( is it?) then the "cs" has an "che" in Romanian.
About the Albanian "drejtë" hmmm.. can it be there is related to the
verb "drege"= to make right, to repair, to put it right and not to Latin
"directus"?
The romanian verb "drege" is given as from Latin "dirigere" but the
semantism doesn't match as usual ( I hope I am not too wrong here since
I took a look just in the small dictionary, in the "bad one":-))

>
>> Why are you so sure this is Latin "saggita"? Do we know what meant
>> the
> Dacian capital "sarmi-segetusa"? We see there the "-segetusa" and
> this can/could be the counterpart of Latin "saggita" as the Dacian
> "genucla" is the counterpart of Latin "genuculum"
>
> Let's be serious. You haven't got a shred of evidence as regards the
> meaning of Zarmi-(~ Zermi-)zegetusa

You are right when you say let be serious. We cannot speculate on a name
where we do not know the meaning. I am not aware of the meaning "zarmi"
I am just aware of the meaning "sarmis" and this is a name of a Dacian
king at least it is seen as a King since there are coins with the name
"sarmis" on it.

> What's wrong with the possibility that there were (at least) two
> different words for 'bee', one a descriptive Latin term (alvi:na >
> *albinam 'hive-dweller'), the other a cultural loan from Greek
> (melitta --> *melettam)? Such doublets for domesticated animals are
> rather common. The terms need not have been completely synonymous in
> Balkan Latin, though the precise difference between the original
> meanings may have been too subtle to be reconstructible
>
> Piotr

There is nothing wrong. It is just a posiblity. As well as the "bletë"
can be a properly evolution in Albanian.
As for doublets where are they? I see just pig, dog, cat, horse, donkey,
but not dublets at all. Maybe some other words which shows a special
feature of an animal but not really dublets. OK, but I guess here we can
get some more help if we see the more words from this terminology for
bees. Maybe Abdullah will complete with Albanian words
Rom. Eng. Alb
albinã = bee =
trântor = drone =
matcã = queen =
roi = swarm =
stup = behive =
prisacã = beefarm =
fagure = honeycomb =
cearã = wax =

Beside "ceara" just "albina" seems to come from Latin. Since we have in
Greek "kera" too and the root is "*qar" it is too much said that the
word "cera" come 100 % from Latin.