Re: [tied] Re: Albanian-Romanian Concordances

Piotr Gasiorowski wrote:

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Abdullah Konushevci" <a_konushevci@...>
> To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 12:53 PM
> Subject: [tied] Re: Albanian-Romanian Concordances
>
>
>> In "Le Vocabulaire Indo-Européen, Lexique étymologique thématique"
>> (Paris, 1984) by X. Delamarre we found in paqe 139: *karhka 'pie':
>> (sk.) sarika 'pie', (arm.)sareak 'etourneau', (lit.) sarka 'pie',
>> (rus.) soroka 'id', pt. e. aussi (alb.) sorrë 'corneille'
>
>
> I almost agree with Xavier, except that careful analysis reveals more
> detail: there's Greek evidence for normal *o rather than aberrant *a
> in the first syllable (<koraks>), all the Satem branches agree in
> making initial *k^- necessary, and Albanian as well as some Slavic
> dialects (SCr. svr"aka < *svórka) suggest *k^w- with unstable *w.
> Xavier's gloss for the Indic word is inaccurate: although the
> blackbilled magpie (_Pica pica_) probably reached NW India even
> before it became synanthropic, the Skt. term <s'a:ri: ~ s'a:rika:>
> refers to the locally more common and characteristic myna birds
>
> The basic form is certainly something like *k^(w)orh2-, to which
> diminutive (*k^worh2-k-ah2) and/or feminine (*k^we:rh2-ih2) suffixes
> could be added
>
> Piotr

well Piotr, please be a bit patient with a poor soul:-)
1) Xavier says "and maybe too (peut etre aussi)" albanian 'sorrë'.
2) the Romanian form is with "c^". Would that means that the
satemisation process was kind of k^>c^>s ?
3) this "s" in Alb. "sorrë" is not so regular as expected. In the
examples I gave once I showed the corepondence of lot Rom. words with
Alb. words where there is the corespondence Alb. "c^"= Rom."ci". I just
remember some of them (Rom-Alb).The words followed by an [1] have an
extra comment :
ce=ç/çë (what); ciocan=çokan/çekan/çekiç (hammer), celnic=çelnik
(Shepherd's boss)cep=çep(tap), ceatã=çetë(group, band, gang), cicã=çka
(so-so),ciomag=çomagë (cudgel), cioban=çoban (shepherd)[1] etc.


__________
coments
__________

cioban=çoban ( shepherd)
I am not very convinced this is a loan from the turkish language. There
are too many derivatives in Albanian and Romanian of this word.
Alb: çoban, çobanak, çobane, çobanë, çobani, çobankë, çobani
Rom: cioban, ciobãnesc, ciobãneste, ciobãni, ciobãnaS, ciobãnel,
ciobanie
Is this to think from the first loan of turkish (XV century) until now
the both languages derived so much? Or is this a loan _into_ turkish
from the populations of Rumelia?


Just for Abdullah here.

I remember you said "çë eshtë" is just a coincidence to Romanian "ce
este". For your fun, look at another one:
"makar (të) jetë ashtu" versus " mãcar (cã) este aSa":-))