[tied] Re: hades

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Brian M. Scott" <BMScott@...>
wrote:

> At 6:18:51 AM on Monday, April 7, 2003, tgpedersen wrote:
>
> > Peschel: Anfänge germanischer Besiedlung im
> > Mittelgebirgsraum mentions an old German name 'Furguna'
> > (the name may not be right, I'm quoting by memory, since I
> > don't have the book handy, I'll check it for tomorrow) for
> > the Hercynian forest (plenty rocks and trees there!).
>
> According to de Vries s.v. <fjörgyn> it's <Fergunna>,
> <Firgunnea>, <Virgunnia>. Compare Goth <fairguni>
> 'Gebirge', OE <firgen->, <fyrgen-> 'mountain-'.
>
> > The assumption is then that 'Hercynia' is Celtic (*p (>?
> > *h) null, u > ü is plausibly Celtic too), and the Germani
> > would then be autochthonous to the region (ie. there from
> > before Grimm shift, but the same argument would apply to
> > ON 'Harfada' "Carpathians"). Cf 'Fjorgun' an epithet of
> > Thor (or was it Odin ?).
>
> <Fjörgyn> is the name of Thor's mother; <Fjörgynn> is the
> name of Frigg's father, but this may be a late creation from
> the feminine name. <Fjörgyn> is apparently also 'earth,
> land' in poetry.
>

Peschel mentions the Finne, a ridge near Naumburg, supposedly from p-
Celtic 'penn'. If both are true, that means

1) Thuringia was once p-Celtic speaking.

2) 'Fergunna' was borrowed by Germanic before (all) Celtic lost -p-,
and before Grimm.

3) 'Finne' was borrowed after Celtic lost -p- and after p-Celtic then
regained it from -kW-, and before Grimm.

4) *walho:s was borrowed (from 'Volcae') before Grimm.

So Germanic and Celtic were in contact in Thuringia, in Middle
Germany since the beginning. Celtic went through two major changes
while the contact lasted. It also seems the Grimm shift took place
there (during the Hermunduri expansion)?

Torsten